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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2018-07-05 00:00:00Z and 2018-07-06 00:00:00Z
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i donated too 110€
00:11
why im not added in donater list
00:11
:c
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[quakenet] <Learath2> so you donated and ddos'd, very interesting
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omg hi Learath2
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@Deleted User where did you send it?
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tbh my experience with LineageOS was aweful. During 2 months I dealed with bugs and tried to get used to the interface. After the testing I realized that I dislike this "classic android" design a lot.
09:56
tnx a lot @heinrich5991 for your render_map script. I used it in our in-game map testing system. It works very well!
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@qshar what's better in your opinion?
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@deen
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I really like the design and interface of MIUI. It has all the best features from Apple and Google. But there is a big problem with setting it up, because there are some hidden spying processes that are hard to delete.
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@deen can you calculate how long starkiller needed to finish all maps combined. and also can you calculate all rank1's to see how much time you would need at least to finish everything?
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he already updated the news with that specific info
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ooh
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In total Starkiller finished all maps in a time of 48 days and 10 hours, with the longest time being over 17 hours on Binary and the shortest being NUT_short_race6 with just 2.22 seconds.
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didnt see that. would still be nice to know all rank1 combined
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@Im 'corneum 11 days and 7 hours
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memes are safe
10:48
10:48
(for now)
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@deen thanks. that means if we all play with the same name for about 2 days, we can catch up on starkiller🤔
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[quakenet] <Learath2> look at all those sold votes in the parliment, voting for their corporate overlords rather then the people who got them there (not that the european parliment represents the people at all or is democratic at all)
11:00
[quakenet] <Learath2> If all these dinasaur politicians would just disappear overnight and we could all start over no one except their families would be sad
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yeah europe sucks
11:35
its all lobbies
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I don't think the EU sucks, I think it does useful stuff
11:37
see e.g. the "recently" (2016) passed gdpr
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yeah i know germans arent eurosceptics
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it'd be nice if you stopped generalizing 🙂
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europe cares little to 0 about human rights
11:37
and u can see all the countries now show their true side with the refugees
11:38
europe payed turkey in past to handle that
11:38
but now the problem is here again
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:40:02Z
Is this the right channel for politics?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:40:20Z
I would already be banned GWfroggyMonkaThink feelsbadman
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:40:39Z
but i agree with Ryozuki GWqlabsFeelsGoodMan
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i find it funny heinrich applies rules he made in 5 seconds but when ppl in #general speaks another language thus breaking rule 1 he does nothing
11:41
i mean rule 5
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zooz
GWfroggyPeepoDetective 3
pepeH 3
troll 3
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:42:37Z
GWfroggyPeepoDetective
banhammer 3
🙃 3
🔫 3
🕺 2
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if you want to discuss moderation, please go to PMs. I can't enforce rules while I'm away. I usually talk to the people who break rules, before further sanctioning them
GWbruhTrolled 1
thonkery 2
5⃣ 3
9⃣ 2
1⃣ 2
danAmazing 2
GWfroggerHyperXD 2
troll 3
gg 3
GWchadThonkery 2
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haHAxD
11:44
u were surely here when people did it alteast some times
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please move moderation discussions into PM
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and ill discuss moderation here
GWfroggyPoggers 1
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stop being a kid
pepeH 2
11:44
@Ryozuki
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:44:59Z
lol muted
troll 2
11:45
i shut my mouth now pepeH monkaS
🙃 1
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btw rules don’t have to be enforced super strict, if people talk 1 or 2 sentences in another language, they don’t have to be banned lol
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[quakenet] <Learath2> @Konsti this channel is the only one connected to the irc, so it's the right channel to discuss anything :P
11:46
[quakenet] <Learath2> @jao +1
11:47
[quakenet] <Learath2> EU doesn't suck because of it's decisions, EU as an idea doesn't suck, EU as it's currently implemented does suck
11:50
[quakenet] <Learath2> basically unelected bureucrats claiming to represent countries
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 11:53:44Z
lmao i agree with Learath pls ban me monkaS
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what’s the problem if the decisions don’t suck
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Learath2: I'm pretty sure that every 5 years the citizens in the EU get to vote for who sits in the parliament
12:04
Maybe you mean the European Commision
12:07
And successful politicians will always act within the boundaries of the system, paying off their winning coalition. So murdering all politicians and replacing them with new ones wouldn't change anything, instead you have to democratize further
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-07-05 12:08:04Z
good when they decide how my cucumber have to look like
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[quakenet] <Learath2> they vote for which party sits in the parliment, except for a few conscious people no one knows who is in the party list
12:08
[quakenet] <Learath2> and yeah the european commision is also a joke
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Keeping you up-to-date with the latest news from the European Commission Representation in the UK
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[quakenet] <Learath2> 10/10 rule
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The term euromyth is used to refer to exaggerated or invented stories about the European Union and the activities of its institutions, such as purportedly nonsensical EU legislation. Conversely, the same term has been applied by Eurosceptics to purportedly misleading or exagg...
ww 3
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@heinrich5991 I'd disagree with you about gdpr. The idea is awesome indeed, but there are many things that they didn't think about. For example game servers like ours. With gdpr game moderation became close to impossible.
🍿 1
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what does moderation have to do with the gdpr?
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like keeping personal data, writing logs with it. There are many more, but I don't want to write it here :)
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what personal data do you keep
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we don't (for more than a day or so), but maybe qshar wants to save IP addresses for longer
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we cleared this info. Now we don't have ips even in logs.
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wouldn’t you need to disclose that to everyone when they first join ddnet
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I just didn't see in gdpr text about keeping for 24 hours
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it definitely doesn't specifically say 24 hours anywhere, that's true
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that is one of the reason for our accounts (besides its awesomeness)
13:32
because ingame you can't confirm anything
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but it allows you to store personal data for providing the service, i.e. spam protection etc., for a reasonable time
13:32
e.g. your program is allowed to save the IP address of a client in memory to respond to it 😛
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@qshar you could force-pause players and show them an individual vote when they join 😄
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yep, but you can't see it or output in logs
13:33
individual vote?
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showing a vote to just one player, so they can f3/f4
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nice idea
13:35
sounds not too easy to implement, but the idea is good. Just not much space in vote for writing all required data
13:36
but need to think about it
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you could write it in the yellow server messages
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don't think that this would accomplish much
13:38
if you have to gain consent, it has to be freely given – this means that people have the right to say "no", too, and not face negative consequences for it
13:38
IIRC
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if they say no, then they will not join the game. The system uses their data to provide the game services, and we can use it only when they agree. (edited)
13:45
or do I get it wrong?
13:47
By the way, for example /save code is a personal data too, so user agreement is needed to keep it
13:48
Well, that what I meant when said that gdpr idea is great, but in the reality is much worse.
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GPRD, is more for companies, which store personal data and proccess them. GDPR is more than "accepting rules", it's more like system which is prepared to be safe for people, to have full control over your data in their ecosystem.
14:03
IF you have accounts, you should have options to delete everything about a certain player, move these data to another company or make possibility to download all the that you store about a guy.
14:04
GPRD in fact is very open in implementation and in what has to be subject
14:09
In my opinion, if you store data, from which you can't specify, who it belongs to, then it's k. (ofc. tracking softwares have to be accepted)
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 14:41:17Z
omg
14:41
for real?
14:41
u kicked Ryo bcs he said something
14:41
abuse
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 14:41:56Z
ye
14:42
@deen he was heere all the time
14:42
he is the only guy who responed to EVERY @mod ping!
14:42
this is hilarious
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yes he was the most active mod and while we recognize that (and are very grateful for it), that shouldnt grant him a complete immunity (edited)
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i agree that mod status shouldnt grant immunity but wtf did he even do
14:52
Im really frustrated right now
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 14:52:59Z
i feel you bro
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Bb in an hour
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@noby well lately he is always discussing stuff about moderation andhe seems never to agree with it. Normaly you cant work together then.
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This is heartbreaking for me, so much time invested on ddnet, to be thrown away by a admin <snip> who can't accept critisism in public and that he knows well that the contact admin for staff things just don't work. I find it even more disgusting that he removes me from ingame moderator for a forum/discord related stuff, when they said in the thread about the rule 11 where they lost the poll that they indeed needed help and thus accepted gdin one. From my look, it looks like <snip> has a really big ego and shouldn't even be admin, in-fact he doesn't even moderate in-game, but he does here in a unfair way where he applies the rules to people in a different way, i guess depending on who you are. And yes, im self censoring with the <snip> thing when i have a strong belief that i have the full right of complaining about a staff member in public. I'll miss those days when someone called for moderator and i happily went there to help. But i guess that is now forgotten until forever. I have to say thanks to @Learath2 for listening to my complains everytime, you are a good admin. Have fun ingame, with one less moderator. (edited)
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ryozuki. i kinda feel u. remember for what i lostt mod? still dont like u tho
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wasn’t a decision by a single admin
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i just wanted to say that textwall, i wont even try to discuss more, since i learned that its completly useless
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mods actually are not much active in game, blockmark and other trolls/blockers do whatever they want and u even kick the most active moderator? (edited)
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This decission is not best for ddnet in general if you ask me, but i understand what happend tho. (edited)
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did they realy kick out the only mod who was in favor of harsh punishments for botting
16:12
smh
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the main problem is that he was most active in game to ban blockers/trolls
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yes that sucks
16:15
but being the most active mod shouldnt grand him full immunity either right? (edited)
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ye. better remove him from release squad too
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what did he even do lmao
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he didnt agree with the other mods
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he didnt agree with ur opinion?
16:16
kek
16:16
lol
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I am active in the evening if you ping #moderator
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they cant see that channel
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you really pitch it down with "he didn't agree"
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well yeah i dont know the full story
16:17
but from what i know thats what it looks like
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for me it looked like he went mental whenever he didnt like something (edited)
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how do u expect someone to enforce rules if they can't follow them themself (edited)
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the rules are bad
f3 1
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then discuss the rules or whatever but don't straight up violate them. and if the result of the discussion is that they stay, live with it or the consequences of violating them
16:24
onby - Today at 6:22 PM the rules are bad
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yeah that was the rule i was referring to
16:25
the others arent that bad ig
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pols aren't super meaningful on such stuff, and even then, the rules wasn't removed so what makes u think it's ok to ignore them (edited)
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i already explained it on my text
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why are polls not meaningful
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cause people troll them or vote in their favor and not for what makes the most sense
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i dont think people who disagree with the rule are automatically trolling
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it can go in both ways
16:27
and there is no way to be sure hence, not meaningful
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and i dont think they are automaticaly disagreeing cuz they think it will benefit them
16:28
i dont even play on ddnet so i have no reason to care about whether i can complain about mods
16:28
i just think that as a principle it should be allowed
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so you would vote without having context -> not necessarily voting for what makes most sense
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makes the most sense isnt an objective thing
16:30
there are probably good arguments for both keeping and removing the rule
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voting without having insight is not good from an objective point tho
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i didnt even vote
16:31
i think
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ye but how do you know all voters have the needed info
16:32
not possible
16:32
hence, not meaningful
16:33
on some stuff polls are great, on others (like administrative decisions) they don't make much sense
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so what is a better way to make decisions about rules
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The problem is, ryo wants an open discussion about decisions, and jao talks about the resulting decisions(the actual consequences). Maybe you should stick to one point
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he can have discussions, but he has to follow the rules as long as they are there
16:38
just because u discuss something you can't ignore it's there
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he cant have discussions if exactly that is prohibited
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it's not prohibited to discuss general things
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"Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, [...]"
16:39
that includes EVERY discussion
16:39
because it doesnt list all types that are forbidden
16:40
but generalizes it
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it's bad worded then, the rule is to prevent complains about individual staff members
16:40
but I think no one said it's not okay to discuss rules
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yes, but why shouldn't that be allowed to be discussed. he doesn't want the decisions to be unmade
16:41
he just wants clearification
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that has to be discussed if you want to remove the rule
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well yes, that's what he tried... ok the poll was missplaced
16:42
but the discussion was actually a good idea
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the discussion was never the problem
16:43
he violated the rule, the violation was not that he wanted to discuss it
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well that is the rule already
16:43
he can't discuss without breaking the rule
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you can discuss the rule in general
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we have not banned people for discussing that rule, and we never will
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if you drag individual complains into it, then you violate the rule and it misses the point of the discussion
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"I like open discussions where everyone can give his opinion and imo it shouldn't be private. I think everyone should know what administration is doing to judge if they are doing correctly or not"
16:44
he clearly states what he wants
16:44
dunno what you read in his post
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we offered to link to a forum where this rule is suspended and admins can respond
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ok, again: he wasn't removed for that forum thread
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yeah but it must be more than one complain
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that is moderated by someone that is not involved in ddnet
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idc why he was removed, currently it's more about the ideals of ddnet
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then why you reference the forum thread like it was the reason for his removal thonkery
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@deen once said in an interview, that ddnet shouldn't make the mistakes ddmax did. now it becomes more and more intransparent for everyone
16:46
and that means it might become ddmax again
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the rule is there since a long time btw (edited)
16:47
I think originally set up by deen himself
16:47
Soreu copied them from a site
16:47
and back at those times
16:47
moderators where only deens friends
16:47
which make sense for early communities
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even if, it may not be as important as it is now
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i saw that
16:49
what got deleted lol
🇴 2
🇲 4
🇬 2
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"@jao troll ................................................................."
16:50
wheres matodors daily jao screenshot
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matodor go to army in next 2 days redstripe
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@Matodor send mlife before u die :)
no 1
yes 1
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someone have android 5.1 or 5.1.1 version?
16:52
lifehack, send to chat +:troll:
troll 1
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so since ddnet mostly consists of volunteers. that is the main base for a working ->and growing<- community. So why don't you give the exact details, why he was removed, and what the problems with his opposed meanings(towards the admins) are?
16:54
and then we can discuss it
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who said something about opposed meanings, he violated rule
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show me
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jupstar +1
16:57
might have another discussion between
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yeah
16:58
thats exactly what this stupid rule says
16:59
he has no chance
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he was offered to go to PMs, he choosed to not listen (edited)
16:59
after he was muted he even joined with 2 other accounts to evade the mute
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why was he muted [seemingly?] without warning
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well than take his posts away. i will ask the exact same question and break the rule
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there was a warning
17:00
(heinrich asking him to go to pms)
17:00
also he pulled the same stuff before, and he was warned there too
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(before = weeks ago)
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i dont count that as a direct warning but ok
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he doesn't even wants(or atleast he doesn't state) to remove any rules he clearly only says that there is no insight in admins decisions
17:01
why PM then?
17:01
i want to know everything too
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what does it matter how long ago it was
ww 1
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just wanted to state it
17:01
im free to do so (for now)
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yes then discuss that, but don't straight up ignore rules lol
17:02
then you can fuck on all rules
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transparency is good
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THE RULE SAYS NO DISCUSSIOn
17:02
dude
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it's bad worded then as I already said, and ryozuki knew that it was okay to discuss the rule itself without dragging individual complaints into it
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he only complains on how decisions were made here
17:03
such a great discussion
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yea, exactly
17:03
as always, the same persons
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he complaint about individual stuff yes
17:04
and as he is free to do so in private, he shouldn't make a public rant about it
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they will never agree with each other
17:04
😄
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i also want to state that, i dont find that removing my moderator status has something to do with breaking this rule here, i find 0 correlation in banning annoying blockers in game with breaking a rule about complaining here
17:04
and aaa puts it like moderator is a nice status to have and its all happiness lol
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wtf does this have to do with me
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snail - Today at 4:44 PM yes he was the most active mod and while we recognize that (and are very grateful for it), that shouldnt grant him a complete immunity(edited) snail - Today at 6:15 PM yes that sucks but being the most active mod shouldnt grand him full immunity either right?(edited)
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so jao, then qoute ryozukis exact rule violation, before qouting the rules over and over again
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and where did i state that it was complete happiness/nice status / whatever?
17:06
in that quote
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"immunity"
17:06
what immunity gives you being moderator
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i literally just wrote that we are thankful for what u did but that doesnt mean we should always bypass when u break rules or when ppl complain about u
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@Deleted User he did it himself
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see
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people said "ryozuki shouldnt have been kicked because hes the most active mod" aka => he should get an immunity whenever he breaks rules
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and i say, in his text there is nothing wrong except that he can't even discuss
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i just said thats not how it works
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he quoted his violatin himself
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he only complains about missing transparency
17:07
he didn't say "heinrich remove it"
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when did I say that it was about him wanting the rule to be gone LOL
17:08
I said it's not about the rule discussion multiple times now..
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Savander "they will never agree with each other" that is the problem
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God dammit guys, you looks like polish politicians.
17:09
you're barking the same phrases for 30 minutes
17:09
Just stop
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no the problem is, if we stop now the admins win
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you don't listen
17:09
you just barking
what 1
🇬 2
🇹 2
🇫 2
🇴 2
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they aren't clear
17:09
he says, ryo gave the answer
17:09
i don't see the conflict in his text
17:10
he has no chance to win, because the admins can lay down their rules as they want
👆 1
17:10
the rules must be 100% clear and they shouldn't be untouchable
17:10
and if he complains about moderation problems
17:10
then it's in the end result of a rule
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idk what you want, I said again and again that discussing rules itself is ok
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yeah, but as i said, he doesn't attack heinrich directly
17:11
he more or less wants insight into what makes heinrich's moderation style (or what ever admin) to what it is (edited)
17:12
he needs to give examples
17:12
that breaks the rule
17:12
nice
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ye and heinrich offered him to go to PMs to get clarification on that. instead ryozuki ignores it and even evades mutes
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why in pm
17:12
everyone should know this
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because that's the current rule
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see
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Discussing someones actions is not done in public
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yes then discuss that rule
17:12
as I said 10 times now
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its a bad rule
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he has no chance in this dictatorship. untouchable admins
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are u ryozuki's alt
17:13
thonkery
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he is not
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i thought u already tried to lead the topic towards it being a bad rule
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no, im just objective
17:13
because i don't play on ddnet
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and to note: i never talked to jupstar before
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Brunei government!
17:14
and people like it 😄
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jupstar is keks lol
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idk how you can say they are untouchable if heinrich literally offeres to discuss it and I say again and again that discussing rules is fine
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ddnet's cmake file is quite something 👀
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and in his forum he wants transparency
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quite? like what 😄
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most ppl liked it
17:15
and then he wants open discussions, bcs thats what everyone wants
17:15
except the admins that in the end, can lay down the rules so it fits their needs
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Well just like a normal goverment people have to accept which road their leaders choose. There are always people who hate on decision but yeah.
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cmake whispering to you? 😮
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don't you see that circulation of not getting any chance without once breaking the rule
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@Savander just read up the latest ddnet+tw discussion and someone suggested to move from bam to cmake as ddnet has done. but I dont know seeing this 1k+ build file now /: (edited)
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why people think, that everyone should be equal?
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why do you think a community based game (mostly running by donations) give anybody the right to rule?
17:17
i never said everyone should make admin decisions
17:17
i am here for tranparency
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because, they made it?
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and open discussions
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Of course someone needs to rule
17:17
No leader is even worse
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i don't care that you gave money, they are executioners (edited)
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deen made it, i want to see deen saying ryo was bad because .... and will be removed from moderation because .... and that rule is there because ....
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why is anyone arguing against transparency
17:18
i cant think of a good reason
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if you can't give so much insight, it's no moderation at all
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They have full rights to do things, how they think it's good way to do.
17:18
do you think, that there is one best system?
17:18
there's not
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indeed
17:19
this system clearly splits the community
17:19
see the forum post about the "rule removing"
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there always will be some people annoyed.
17:19
i follow the subject
17:19
don't need to check
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it's the best example of what community wants and what not
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community it's not only 2% of whole game base
17:19
yea, they are most active
17:19
but they are not the most
17:20
after all, democracy isn't the best system at all. Since people are often stupid
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but if the community says ryo was a good moderator and ryo breaks a rule, that the community dislikes too i strongly questining if something else than ryo is the problem
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why should the vote of someone who plays once a year count the same as the vote of someone who plays everyday
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Lol 98% of the community doesn't give a fuck and just play ddnet maps
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yes that's the best idea too @n000b , but a utopia
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in what world is a moderator that breaks rules good?
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there will always be conflicts, and again and again, that's why transparency is so important
17:22
because the 2% give a fuck
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that will cause more problems
17:22
and again, antoerh 2% with problems
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@jao in a world where the rule might be a problem already
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@Deleted User your arguing with a brick wall
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they are always right
17:22
and your always wrong
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yes @ZombieToad i know xD
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Kind of, im fucking iron wall
17:23
LOL
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but it's amusing how they are so right about their opinion
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and thats sad
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u r mud wall Savander
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It's called discussion, you wanted one
17:24
we have one lol
17:24
i give you arguments, you give me as well
17:24
it's not like im assuming, that current system is the best one, and shouldn't be changed.
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@snail banhammer
feelsgoodman 1
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this reminds me of the Allegory of the Cave
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[7:22 PM] ZombieToad: they are always right [7:22 PM] ZombieToad: and your always wrong [7:23 PM] Jupstar ✪: yes @ZombieToad i know xD
17:25
It's all because you all want monologues instead of discussions
f3 1
17:26
discussions don't mean that we don't get to talk and you get to shit all over us because we have opinions
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i tried to start a discussion about if admins should be able to override veto and got banned for it last week
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override veto?
17:27
oh like on ddnet server
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@ZombieToad did you actually get banned because I said sue me and you actually did?
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why couldnt they if theyre admin
17:27
admin can turn off veto votes entirely to override it
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@Learath2 yes
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We override veto because it's broken, sometimes noone is playing and you can't pass a map vote
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I'm pretty sure, that "starting discussion" in a cultural way, will never cause bans
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@ZombieToad i think u got banned coz u were obviously trolling and just trying to create some drama/annoyance xd
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@ZombieToad I'm sorry 😛 I was fine with you posting that screenshot
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@Learath2 jao - Today at 7:04 PM he complaint about individual stuff yes and as he is free to do so in private, he shouldn't make a public rant about it this is ur monologe
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(i didnt ban u, but thats how i saw it. even tho i laughed at the "hiding his name" thing)
feelsamazingman 1
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monologue means one person giving a speech, talking to himself
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maybe u find the discussion annoying because you want to abuse rcon aswell
f3 2
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sue me too then 👀
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(context is I was on a dummy server, @ZombieToad joined to show off his beep, I just changed the map he wasn't even playing)
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normal players have to join another server if they cant change maps
17:29
why dont admins?
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@ZombieToad u fell in ur own trap ZombieToad - @Jupstar ✪ your arguing with a brick wall ZombieToad - Today at 7:22 PM they are always right and your always wrong (edited)
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if you actually think this is an issue there is no point in discussing this, you are obviously trolling
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@Learath2 nice discussion if the other side can't give a clear argument and only quotes things 10 times and says its right
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@ZombieToad because the service provider delegated them the power to do so, I guess?
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normal players have to call votes when they want to ban another player why can admins just f2 ban thats not fair
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Hi. I think I found a BUG in ddnet client
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ok @Learath2 ur right
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@Deleted User you people don't give an argument either, your argument is that transparency is good, which we agree with, so all you do is strawman all day, "Admins hate transparency"
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stop talking about this i dont want banned again
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you agree with it but u dont apply it?
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@ZombieToad you were banned?
17:31
i clearly state what makes the rule a bad rule for the community
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The only thing we don't apply it with is staffing decisions
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dunno what you read
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whats wrong with transparency
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but thats the whole point learath
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@ZombieToad why you were banned?
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@Deleted User he was trying to make fun of a rule, ended up taking the trolling too far
17:32
Why do you think it's okay to smear someones name by discussing their intentions and actions in the public?
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@Deleted User probably best cause of action is to create an issue on github.com/ddnet/ddnet at the moment due to the ongoing discussion
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how is it smearing someones name to say u disagree with what someone did
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why can't the name lay down arguments for it's action?
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@Learath2 because they are in a position of power, people should know what they do and create his own opinion about if its good or bad
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accepting a position as admin seems like accepting responsibility to handle public feedback
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wasnt just learath i was talking about
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ddnet admins cant take critisism and thats why they defend this rule so much
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but all the active admins
17:34
so learath and snail
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critisism wont kill ddnet
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again @Learath2 it's not about the resulting consequences, but about the way to get to the rule and it's idea
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It' wouldn't be btter to try that stackoverflow thing?
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@cin I dont know maybe its not a bug lets discuss
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to "ask" moderator, what happend and why on seperated forum
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@ZombieToad I've never seen a force map change except for me I think
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I cant'l lock or unlock team while I'm muted on the server, is this a bug?
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@Savander which we proposed
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i know Learath
17:35
that's why im asking
17:35
why don't try? It' would be the best thing at the moment
17:35
to test it out
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@Deleted User we know this one, @deen didn't think we should fix it
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you proposed a failure, it rips off all traffic, and also you cant get anyone who isnt involved in ddnet itself to moderate that
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@Learath2 some moderators did it and i think its fine if the server is empty or nobody is playing. theres no harm in doing so and i guess thats a perk for helping ddnet, theres nothing wrong in that
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@Learath2 oh my god why?
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add more transparency
17:36
allow open discussions
17:36
easy as that
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still worth opening an issue on github IMO. Possible to keep track of known bugs additionally to knowing the stance of the development team on this subject. (edited)
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what kind of over exaggeration is that? Learath killed a bug so he is a murderer
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Just prepare your own rules, describe them as best as you can, and then we all can discuss it I guess. :p
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helpers have access to rcon vote yes but they dont force vote veto because they know its abuse
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helpers only can vote no
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u sure?
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i coded it
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We allow open discussions on everything except staffing, so what you care about isn't transparency, it's either trying to prove a point or openly shit on peoples reputations
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@Learath2 and I'm wonder why you ban people for "taking the trolling too far"?
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do mods have vote yes then xD
17:38
they also have a active moderator mode
17:38
where they can press f3 to force vote
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never seen that used
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easy when u are alone in a 64p server like me
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no @Learath2 , staffing is the most important thing. YOU do allow discussions but only in PM thats the whole thing
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i use it
17:38
well
17:38
used
17:38
xDD
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@Deleted User cause we don't need useless drama here
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@Deleted User because we can't spend hours discussing with people who don't want the discussion to reach anywhere or think that their point is viable. They want to waste time, we don't have much of that (edited)
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how would u know if its being used or not lol
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it shows a server message
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@jao but who decide it's useless?
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telling that server is being actively moderated
17:39
i coded it too
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i did lot for mods
17:39
but i got kicked now
17:39
life is hard
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@Deleted User in PM we allow reports, then we discuss the reports and take appropriate action
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@Deleted User me in that case (as the server's admin)
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Would you think it's a good idea for the people to appoint judges?
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and the discussion is not visible to us
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i vote zombietoad as judge
f3 1
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so it ends up creating alot of conflicts (edited)
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or for the people to vote for judgement?
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@jao it's cool to be a server admin
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Even in real life, if police leads the case, they don't spread everything to public
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the judge isnt a judge when the case is against him
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Lol, ADmins are police! EASY AS THAT
17:40
:D:D
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Besides we don't even get that many reports
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@Ryozuki so they have access to vote_no but not vote no
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this isn't this huge issue that you all think it is
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having to pm someone makes some people not do it
17:42
@ZombieToad yep
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Lol, then it's their problem
17:42
they can, but they don't do it
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any complaint we got was dealt with, and every person whose complaint got dealt with was happy with the resolution
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I know what you would say
17:42
"admins don't care"
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it's your problem if you don't want to report people
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it wouldn't hurt to improve how you can submit reports
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@Learath2 i complained and im not happy with the resolution
17:43
also what about what hileute says? heinrich not answering him anymore etc
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"every person whose complaint got dealt with was happy with the resolution" this is wrong xd
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pm failing in action
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which 9000 word post of hi leute?
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yes, but there is one important thing to note, indepentend of what side you pick: Many ppl won't see why ryo was removed. And if you ask for the "why", you get a qoute to a rule. And if you questening that rule, the insight stops regardless. And it's your choice if it's good or bad, but thes things can split communities. (edited)
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yea, report system ccould be modernized 😛
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my complaint with heinrich didnt end happy :D
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@ZombieToad gee, I wonder why
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Maybe AS you proposed. SEPARATED forum?
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i used a bot to finish a map and he deleted it but wouldnt show me the proof that i botted
🤖 2
troll 2
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"every person whose complaint got dealt with was happy with the resolution" this sounds more like a TV ad (edited)
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maybe they weren't happy but did they get a resolution yes they did
17:44
sorry we didn't draw and quarter the mod you complained about in public
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so why you said "every person whose complaint got dealt with was happy with the resolution"?
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you said that
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no he said that
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lol, when
17:45
jao said "its wrong"
17:45
not that he agree
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Learath2 - Today at 7:42 PM any complaint we got was dealt with, and every person whose complaint got dealt with was happy with the resolution
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Learath you say wrong stuff here lol, don't present it as facts
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can you just remove my rank so I can be done with this mess?
🇷 2
🇶 2
17:45
I seriously am going to pop an aneursym here
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or return my moderator, put more transparency and open discussions and we end the mess
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@Ryozuki I made a false statement, sorry. Atleast I can admit when I'm wrong
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srsly, don't bitch now, because he said something wrong or not directly correct
17:46
that doesn't help
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Jupster it's perfectly nomral here
17:46
but, i think you are here for more than a week
17:46
so you should know
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What else can I do? Do you want me to write a 1000 word polite apology that I made a wrong statement because I have to argue with 50 of you at a time?
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well a system works until it doesn't whats why i investigate now
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How this chat can be serious, with not serious people :P. After all
17:47
it's a game
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@jao when u see this mess it wasnt me who started it so pls dont ban me
👺 1
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that should be the standard reply when someone has a problem with one of the staff
17:47
"its just a game"
17:47
🙄
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Why @Ryozuki got removed?`
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You are thinking, that this is some kind of big country, where everything have to be transparent
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We get complaints from people, complaints concern the people and the abuser, we handle it, we tell the complainee what happened. It might not be the result they want but you don't get that in your regular police either
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yeah like when the politicians are fcking you and they say "dont get into politics"
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yeah savander, it's sad that ryo broke the rule(independend of if its bad or not) fact is, he did, and from what i heared he was pretty famous around the community as a mod
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Oh after my ddnet experience I wouldn't even join a fucking debate club
17:48
no thank you
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Im not talking directly about ryo
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Im with ddnet since beginning
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what means being with ddnet
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Just know, that people will never understand each other
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but you can't always look into the past
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why he got removed from moderation?
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I'm not looking, it happens
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there is a conflict now, and maybe now is a good time to questening the system
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@Brokecdx- like it or not, rule 11 is still here, can't discuss it
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it's fine
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and in the end, the admins can say, stop it, or say, we will allow this discussion, and look if it brings up some ideas
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@Deleted User actually, there's idea
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[7:49 PM] Jupstar ✪: there is a conflict now, and maybe now is a good time to questening the system Hit it when it's weak? Love it
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to make seperated forum, for complains
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@Brokecdx- basically that + the fact that he rejoined with an alt when he got muted + that one time when he went crazy and insulted heinrich + some previous reports that we ignored because "most active mods"
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and my claim is only "it might split the community, if the community can't get the insight to their questions in more detail"
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but there was proposal
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@Learath2 ofc.. that's the most important thing about evolution, removing weak spots, and gain strength
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I mean, what do you want more :D. There have to be some kind of system
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@Deleted User Okay let's go down this route. insight to which question will they not get an answer to in detail?
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Well then let's everyone end this drama and accept that @Ryozuki went too far?
17:51
Let's be mature one time ddnet community
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you really missed a lot of the convo
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Then discuss it with heinrich
17:51
in private chat
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@Brokecdx- it's the whol;;e point, open discussions
17:51
not private one
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it's stupid
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nice argument
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That's why we suggested to make spearted forum
17:52
for issues
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just because 1 15 year old is having issues
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Ryozuki - Today at 7:35 PM you proposed a failure, it rips off all traffic, and also you cant get anyone who isnt involved in ddnet itself to moderate that
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@Brokecdx- nooo, that's simply not possible because as much as they like to complain that we are a wall, they actually are no different, they will not compromise on theiir point, nor accept our proposed solutions for it
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@Learath2 i want to know, why the rule makes the rule so important to the admins, that you aren't allowed to have an open discussion of such things. Why shouldn't anybody be allowed to criticise a direct dicision of an admin, if alot of ppl are clearly for more openess?
17:53
Yes this is strange
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@Brokecdx- i don't know why u hate me, but im 18
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@Ryozuki what i've heard about you, doesnt seem like it (edited)
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if u dont like discussions u can just go play and ignore this
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it's pointless
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then go ahead and ignore this
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@Brokecdx- if you want to cpmain about ryozuki then please pm him
17:54
complain*
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he is no staff
17:54
😃
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even if i were mod u could complain about me in public since im not like those admins
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@Learath2, wouldn't be good to make that section which we talked about? For now, it's the best approach we can choose. No one gave better idea to solve the problem.
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but i dont
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i want to repost this Jupstar ✪ - Today at 7:52 PM @Learath2 i want to know, why the rule makes the rule so important to the admins, that you aren't allowed to have an open discussion of such things. Why shouldn't anybody be allowed to criticise a direct dicision of an admin, if alot of ppl are clearly for more openess? since it looks like it got forgotten fast
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I want to be staff! So no one will complain about me ever! 😀
danAmazing 1
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oh, and you say that we are the "brick walls"
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ill make a new ddnet that wont have the problems this ddnet has
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there's solution, but you don't give a fuck
17:56
just keep repeating your shit
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@Deleted User 1) We do not condone people attacking eachother in public. 2) The staffing discussions are usually about peoples personalities, having them in open will mean that everyone will try to act polite and we won't actually get to the truth. Most of an admins decisions are either about rules or staffing. We allow open discussion of all rules, we don't allow that for staffing for which we already gave reasons. Besides, A LOT of people is like 2 people who actually know their arguments and 5 trolls that just agree with them because they just want chaos. We have 500 players. Most don't even know about this drama, nor have complaints about mods.
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they made a decision, on request you received the apparent reason for that decision. I don't see what else is needed.
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@Learath2 but you clearly see that my complain there is about his behaviour moderating so ur points are wrong
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All public reports turn to personal attacks as seen when we are late to moderate the forums
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we don't allow that for staffing for which we already gave reason gave reason? instead of a reason u muted me
17:58
u censored the discussion
17:58
u dont see the hypocrit point?
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That's not what you were muted for nor was I the one that muted you
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i got muted for complaining about heinrich
17:58
moderation
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If you want it to be personal keep it personal, if you want it to be about all of us then keep it general
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ok @Learath2 let's tear it down like this: "Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, such as post removals and thread closures, is not permitted. We are not perfect and if you feel that we have made a mistake, please privately contact a staff member and we will review the situation." If admins make mistakes, i complain privatly( pretty much 1 vs all admins, who might discuss it closed) So if i make a mistake in my "complain" i have no chance to get the help of others, who might be against a decision. Because in exactly that situation you seem to argue with that or similar rules. Because you cannot discuss that rule without arguments, AND THAT ARE STUFF decisions
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stop saying its personal, its clearly nto personal in the paste
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you don't get to mix the two to arbitrarily boost your point
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no u got muted because when he politely asked to follow the rule u said u will ignore it and continue anyway @Ryozuki
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i know that trolls are a problem, BUT WHERE do i want the dicision to be unmade
17:59
nowhere
18:00
i want the insight about your dicisions nothing else
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because i wanted to discuss that publicly
18:00
using my free speech
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btw. i think all of you guys read rules before joining
18:00
so why are you so suprise now
18:00
😄
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yes but obviously when he asks u to stop, telling him u dont give a fuck and ull continue anywa isnt the way to go..
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and if 99% of the community says the decision is bad, i still don't say you should change it
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it's like, i buy a house near to airport
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but where is your problem to even discuss such
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and i want to destroy that airpor, because too loud
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Lol 99% doesn't give a fuck
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@Savander I think they'll ban you, be careful
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I don't care, i don't do bad things
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I agree that it's important we get multiple views on something. I just don't get why do you think we are all part of the same consciousness? We all have our own ideas, and disagree most of the time
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@Savander destroying an airport is not really good thing (edited)
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@Deleted User How do you feel about staffing decisions being very personal? Would you be okay with your personality being discussed in front of others? Because that's what a lot of the decisions come down to
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Haha, yea
18:03
but the discussions looks the same
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yes, i absolutly don't care if ryo is mod or not, but it seems like i can't create a thread that says the dicision by admin XY was shit because...
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i want to drestroy airport, because lol. too loud huuh!?!
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it's not about destroying
18:04
it's about clearification
18:04
honestly I would destroy it too
18:04
you can say i dislike the airport its so loud
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There is generally never a decision by admin xy, we discuss , we all compromise until we come to an agreement
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Yea, but they wouldn't listen to you
18:04
since, the airport was first, you knew
18:04
what are you doing
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yeah*, ok then all admins (edited)
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and what are you accepting (edited)
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doesnt change the idea
18:06
if i know you made a rule i would quote you as the main initializer ofc
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If you don't attack any of my arguments then we won't get anywhere
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???
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I'm saying staffing decisions are personal in nature, would you be okay with those being in public?
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"personal in nature"????
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it's funny
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because actually that's not the real point
18:08
it's clear you removed him because he broke a rule
18:08
Every time I come here, you all argue with each other, I also want to!
18:08
that won't ever change, because you are in this point right
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You are talking about a specific decision again
18:08
I don't get it
18:08
Decide please, I can't argue with 50 arguments some general some specific
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but my point is mostly, he can't arguee against that rule, because that would be a violation again
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are we arguing about the rule or are we arguing about ryozuki?
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see
18:09
"You are talking about a specific decision again"
18:09
this is the best example
18:09
actually the problem already
18:09
why shouldnt i do exactly that?
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How can we debate if we can't decide what we are arguing on?
18:10
I give you arguments for the general case, you beat down on them using arguments for a specific case
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i use ryo as an example
18:10
i never said get ryo back
18:10
he had just no chance to say anything without examples
18:10
and that was already against rules
18:10
he made the poll in the forum
18:11
it already showed there is an idea, that the rules aren't perfect
18:11
then you want to deliver examples and it stops
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And I replied to each and every argument there is on the poll, even ended up in compromises and agreed on some points with hi leute
18:11
the poll was a discussion of the rule, no one was banned for it
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yeah
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no one was reprimended for it
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well heinrich snipped it really hard
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but clearly you seem to not get the point
18:12
without giving actual examples
18:12
and this is the best
18:12
ryo had no chance, to discuss anything, because the rule never changes
18:12
this problem is the conflict of the rule
18:13
and now ppl take in position
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your example is not an example of anything except that we do support transparency
18:13
you say there is a conflict
18:13
rule 11 has nothing to do with rule discussions
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ok
18:14
we are at the beginning again, maybe it makes no sense "rule 11 has nothing to do with rule discussions" that's the whole thing
18:14
how can i give you an clear example
18:14
tell me what should i do to show you the rule sucks?
18:14
give me a clear example now pls
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You can't because we don't allow discussions about staff. You can only show one outside this community. Where they are very happy with discussing their staff in public
18:15
but I can also show you examples where communities that frown upon it have thrived
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and you are sure you want this?
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thus examples are a bad way to get to results
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ok, if thats the whole problem, then maybe all admin decisions should be 100% annonym
18:16
so you are only attacking the real problem
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if all admin decisions were 100% anonymous then we wouldn't be transparent at all 🤦
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well, but atleast we could have an open discussion
18:17
because else it's not possible
18:17
i cannot always quote conflicts in other regions on this planet
18:17
to solve ours
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I can quote stackoverflow, where people are pretty happy with their semi-transparent staffing discussions
18:18
which we already said we could try
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In the society all discussions about governance are open. Isn't this enough?
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Imo, the best would be write cons and pros about current rule and about the proposition from jupstar to remove one
18:19
then you would see clearly, what's better, what will cause more problems
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Examples are beyond the point, I give you 2 arguments that you don't want to argue against, you just argue that there is a conflict between rule 11 and it's discussion, I tell you there isn't one, you tell me there is one
18:20
We are all developers here, that is definitely an infinite loop 😛
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but your problem seems to be that someone is attack(smone from the admins) so, there must be any chance to attack the dicision anyway
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stackoverflow sucks
18:21
it awlays comes up in google results for problems i have
18:21
but all the questions are closed because the members dont like the question
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@Deleted User sorry, I don't understand the last one at all
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I think jupstar doesn't fully understand what everything is about
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he mentions the same stuff again and again
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he clearly stats that he thinks learath problem is an admin being personally attacked so he wants a chance to only attack the "decision"
18:26
i dont find it that hard
18:26
to understand
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is it learath's problem?
18:27
I think he got something wrong there
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maybe he meant argument
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I never ever made a specific argument. I just told you what I feel about the rule and why I vote to keep it
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yeah maybe i wasnt clear about it: if you don't complain to a admin about stuff recruiting, but to "the admins", then you can't attack a signle person
18:30
but the whole crew xd
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You think, if it would be open then
18:30
the admin would be alone?
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as i said
18:30
it's more about having these open discussions
18:30
not about attacking
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it already is about single admins
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ryo did that, but it seems heinrich was the initilizer
18:31
so it was his good "right"
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But look
18:31
You dn't want attacks
18:31
but you will cause them
18:31
you think, people would be polite ? On public forum?
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yeah but the admins (as a whole) must be experienced enough to take such critisism
18:31
thats the task of a forum mod
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critisism?
18:32
You talking about all of these trolls over there?
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dude nothing new that i cant write xd
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But look, if you would delete those "troilled" message
18:32
then you would tell me its censorship
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I personally don't mind you talking shit to me, but the mod in question might not want people to insult him
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people have to be held accountable for their mistakes, but they don't have to be trashed by some stupid rant based on lies
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well, i think you can see a difference between a good argumentation(critic) and a troll post
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Yes, and oyu will tell me it wasn't troll
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and you don't need to be in public to be held accountable
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it's perspective
18:34
Imo, closed reporting or delegated forum is the best thing you can do, without harming people
18:34
if someone got ban, they probably did something wrong
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well @Learath2 this can happen, but willing to work with the community might create hate towards a person, that tho isn't the point. it's about the decision: if i say mod XY made many mistakes(false bans) then he has to face it. is there a problem?
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he will face with admins
18:34
not community
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you can do that in private
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insulting is something that is a problem independend of reports
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and it will have sufficient consequences (edited)
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why communit have to administer justice
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that doesn't change the fact, that we cannot make critic to any dicisions, even the ones that have nothing todo with his popularity
18:36
or was ryos problem such a thing?
18:36
no he broke a rule
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in private you can 😄
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mhh sure the community isnt the judge
18:36
it's the ones that discuss
18:36
i said that few times
18:37
the admins judge
18:37
that will never change
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I don't like, when people without knowledge about problem
18:37
talks about this problem
18:37
like, admin kicked someone, and then
18:37
whole community blame admin
18:37
because, LOL HOW YOU DARE
18:37
you know backstory?
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SEEE
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not at all
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thanks for the argument
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for what argument, you can't think for yoursefl?
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no, i won't get the backstory
18:38
so i have to accept it, and can't openly discuss it
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so it's stupid to talk about stuff, if you don't know what happened
18:38
and you think what would hapopend
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if the admins make reasonable decisions, you don't need the community to discuss it
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I personally don't feel the extra discussion will bring in anything new to the table, but you feel so so we even said we can try the semi-transparent model of stackoverflow
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if everyuone could talk about every admin decision? Without context
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and why does that happen
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We already have enough people that disagree on everything
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don't you see your owngoal?`
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unless you do heavy moderation, there is no way to prevent people spreading lies and cause whitch hunting
18:39
For me, the topic is super closed
18:39
You don't gave any real solutions
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and is that something bad?
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and removing rule isn't one
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i actually think there are alot of helpers around here
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yes, for 2 weeks then they disappear
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I actually feel the worlds problem right now is people complaining with offering no real solution
18:40
not just ddnet
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:41:12Z
there is a solution
18:41
ban bans
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:41:20Z
and remove rules
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I like that one
18:41
Anarchy
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we should ban everyone
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:41:51Z
y
18:41
no
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Then nobody will talk
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yes why don't we just live in a perfect world
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best solution imo
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Anarchy has been discussed for a millennia yet no country or community embraces it. It can't be too good
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:42:37Z
they suck
18:42
in tw anarachy is good
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Maybe we should hire a lawyer, to write
18:42
good rules
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anyway it seems more ryozuki wasn't really talking about stuff decisions, but more dicision of stuffs(admins) so either way we talked about a different problem lately
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and explanations
18:42
😄
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that aren't independend tho
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let's take it one step further and vote on ssh commands we execute on the servers
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:43:12Z
u will see BanBansNet is going to rock
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since the rules cover both
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as long as most people vote nothing bad will happen
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@ChillerDragon whats BanBansNet
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:43:50Z
a thing im working on currently
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I don't know how about you admins, but for me it's closed topic. Since noone gave any solution
18:43
expect the StackVOerflow one
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8:43 PM] Jupstar ✪: since the rules cover both Can you please show me this rule you have been complaining about for the last hour? It very clearly doesn't cover both, if it does it's bad wording and we need to fix it
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which was accepted
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rule 11
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:44:19Z
@ZombieToad ddnet with good maps and no rules
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I want an overhaul of the rules, they are from 2015 feelsbadman
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@Savander stackoverflow idea was by @heinrich5991 even
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so, you have answers
18:44
Maybe we shouldn't talk to people, which don't want to make anything more than complains?
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@ChillerDragon pls rules
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Less stress
18:45
less effort
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otherwise its DDBlock
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@Savander I'm already going to die young of all the stress, might aswell take it all the way
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:45:48Z
ppl dont block if they can race @ZombieToad im hostin my block servers since years and ppl never block there bcs i have races
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I'm sure people in the european parliament don't have to argue so much a day
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I think
18:46
there's the same problem
18:46
people don't listen
18:46
and complains
18:46
without solutions
18:46
that's why it's shit
18:46
xD
18:47
that's why i really like Brunei
18:47
one guy, absolute power
18:47
everyone happy
18:47
rich country
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@jao should we maybe reword rule 11 so it's clearer?
18:47
@Savander monarchy only works as long as everyone is rich af, rich in context of ddnet doesn't mean much
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he even ban talking about money
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ye and we should think a bit more about it, don't rush it
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so it's super cool
18:48
they were poor
18:48
as fuck
18:48
for last 500 years
18:48
and they are still happy
18:48
😄
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but tho i would like to know why ryo's complain was wrong, or better, how could he report his complain, but already make some discussion with anybody, who might think the same
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they are rich, because Shell found a lot of oil and gas
18:49
now they are super rich, but still the same system
18:49
absolute power ;PP
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a private complain is not bad, as you ppl stated, it removes some unneeded effects(insults etc)
18:49
but i might want ppl on my side, giving good arguments, i have no chance to do that in a forum
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Hell I might even agree to public mod reports, but discussions are just not a good idea imho
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YOu can talk about everything, expect admimns
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or give an overview that many ppl dislike it, even if they don't directly report
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and mods
18:50
because it can cause personall harashment
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he wasnt talking about admins, but about the decision once again
18:51
so basically the admins collect just how many reports they get about any decision
18:51
and then discuss it?
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[8:50 PM] Jupstar ✪: or give an overview that many ppl dislike it, even if they don't directly report
18:51
very biased and not meaningful
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do you think people will only discuss the decision? we can't keep a single discussion about the discussion itself rather then the persons discussing it
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but that doesn't mean 5 admins are right directly
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nice 5000 messages of argument pls stop now. nothing has changed. nothing will change and i cant be bothered to read anymore
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@ZombieToad just mark it as read then
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but i dont want to miss anything
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it's like tv show
18:53
you don't like it
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developer channel has important stuff in it
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but you watch it
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i just want to break the record of biggest log file
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:53:43Z
xd
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 18:54:03Z
f3 for #developer on ddnet discord being the most interesting chat ever
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it is
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@Deleted User i think it is the biggest logfile https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/
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Guess that's it for today, we'll discuss the wording of rule 11 and it's implications
18:57
Thanks to everyone who contributed their opinion
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rule 11 doesnt affect ddnet discord right? jao makes the rules here
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and please understand ryos point he did really alot for you, and only wanted "his idea" to improve ddnet to be heard
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Admins now want us to forget this
18:58
Always works, for some weeks
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i know it's currently against your rules, but in the end, it wasn't an total atk or smth
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I didn't make the no staff complaints rule here @ZombieToad
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@jao u run the ddnet bot?
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Jesus christ lord almighty, give me strength. Your conspiracy theories actually make me paranoid of myself
no 1
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so who typed those rules?
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@ZombieToad the DDNet bot
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again, get his position
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it's a sentient neural network
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he is the one, that fears, nothing changes, after all his work
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lol the one who "typed" the latest version of the rules doesn't have to be the one who originally set them up
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@jao you own this discord so you get to make the rules here?
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I don't own this discord
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i thought welf gave it to you
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and I didn't make the staff complaints rule, again
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then regretted giving it to you
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yea no that's not true
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@Deleted User but should work always result in change?
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welf lied to me :O
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don't the validity of the arguments matteR?
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no, but i still don't see a reason to have such a harsh rule
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so who is the current owner of this discord
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you could say, be ingame moderator, but pls stop writing to us. that would take his whole existence
19:02
because he clearly isn't against you
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snail @ZombieToad
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so welf gave it to snail?
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and i mean about the decisions stuff, not generally
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@Deleted User as said ,we'll discuss the wording of the rule and think about a solution to the staff discussions rule
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@snail remove rule 6 pls
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i guess thats a good start for both sides
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only ddnet bot can do that
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remove rules after all
f3 1
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only 2 should exists
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only 1*
19:04
be nice!
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"Admin is always right"
19:05
"If not, see first paragraph"
19:05
and everyone would be happy! I really like that one
19:05
I always put it in my rules
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this the rules already tbh
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then people say they didn't do wrong cause it's not in the rules
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"admins have the final say on everything"
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but then if an admin isn't present no one is breaking any rules
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stuff like "only english" is more of a guideline already anyways
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not good enough
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Why, if for you someone did something wrong
19:06
ban him!
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rule 6 is a guideline aswell right?
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im not joking :PP
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#4 Use channels only for their named purpose - Read the channel descriptions for more details.
19:07
yall are getting banned
19:07
this is only for developers
19:07
for develoipment talk
19:07
changins rules is indeed development
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but the rules are never gonna change so not really
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this channel is kinda different because it's the only one connected to irc
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so why we talked for a 2 hours
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who uses irc?
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[quakenet] <Learath2> so I don't have to walk over to another computer
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ok I will do an update to the discord rules
19:09
after we did the rule 11 thing
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Man, just remove it!
yes 2
19:09
(:D)
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You see guys? who's the master
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@Savander for supreme leader
19:11
im supreme leader
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:11:38Z
can we get back to tech?
19:11
ddnet - DDraceNetwork, a mod of Teeworlds
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Absolute power only
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:11:47Z
$ mysql -u teeworlds -p'PW2' teeworlds < ddnet-sql/record_*.sql
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and no talk about money
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:11:56Z
bash: sql-banbans/record_*.sql: ambiguous redirect
19:12
any ideas?
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You can't redirect more then one file
19:12
there is one stdin 😛
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:12:29Z
huh?
19:12
but its in the ddnet readme
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i think, you have to put
19:12
date
19:12
in plac eof * but idk
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huh, maybe some zsh extension
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who made ddnets sql so complicated
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[quakenet] <Learath2> sushitee I think :P
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or maybe not :D:D
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:13:21Z
and even with single files it doesnt work
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i would abstract sql
19:13
:v
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:13:41Z
it dumps some hughe usage instruction set with single files
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can you show output for a single one?
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used to be you had sql_password sql_username sql_prefix
19:14
now it has add_sqlserver
19:14
idk what to do with add_sqlserver
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@Savander I was thinking of sth similar with a records server, and @HMH suggested a message queue, might have worked well actually
19:14
@ZombieToad that is so we can have failover servers
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:14:53Z
@Learath2
10.89 KB
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llike if one server fails we don't lose records or have to manually input them
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@Learath2 is add_sqlserver documented anywhere?
19:15
https://ddnet.tw/settingscommands/ add_sqlserver add a sqlserver
19:15
doesnt help much
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:15:56Z
in the readme i think
19:16
19:16
afk
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wheres this
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[quakenet] <Learath2> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet
ddnet - DDraceNetwork, a mod of Teeworlds
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I generally like abstraction
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[quakenet] <Learath2> @ChillerDragon, hmm I don't get why that happens
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i don't like write the same stuff over and over again, if i can abstract it to simpler form
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oh its under Importing the official DDNet Database
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Also, i don't like huge classes and files
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i didnt want to do that i just wanted sql xD
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@ChillerDragon you might want to add a 0 after the w line so it doesn't try recreating it (don't remember if it's still necessary)
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poor documentation 😦
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yeah very bad actually 😦
19:21
It has never been so easy to document your things
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do we want npm? 😛
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meh, probably not
19:28
but looks good
19:28
😄
19:28
but, markdown is pretty straighforward
19:28
we could use it to docs
19:28
maybe not like, every function in game
19:29
(doxygen would be better then)
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really should have documented along the way
19:29
doxygen docs look like they were from 1998
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For me, the best documentation is
19:29
when functions describe themselfs
19:29
and are not too big
19:29
Maybe because i think in really abstract way and prefer abstraction
19:31
Btw, how about StyleCI? have you wrote the rules? I remember you tried
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Recently, I have learned a bit of CPP. I'm so proud of myself. Now I can at least understand what's going on in Teeworlds code 😮
19:40
at least, more than before
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same
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I tried getting clang-format to do our way but it doesnt want to
19:43
phpstorm funnily is the only thing that can do our style easily
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phpstorm?
19:43
why nto CLIon
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on kog servers it forces ur flag to libya
19:55
why is it green
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 19:59:31Z
19:59
lul
20:00
The flag of Libya was originally introduced in 1951, following the creation of the Kingdom of Libya. It was designed by Omar Faiek Shennib and approved by King Idris Al Senussi who comprised the UN delegation representing the regions of Cyrenaica, Fezzan and Tripolitania at U...
20:00
herer it is
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it's their old flag
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was the green flag ever official?
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it says they used their current flag since 1951?
20:02
oh i see
20:02
it was re adopted
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@Ravie fix libya flag
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lol
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just picked the random solid one. That could be strange if we force everyone to have German flag :)
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default flag? thonkery
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just pick tw flag
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 20:32:06Z
how to disable /map ..-.
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server setting
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 20:35:18Z
ah found it
20:35
xd
20:39
BanBansNet ready to launch guiis
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default flag is too popular. You can't define with it.
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 20:39:34Z
its not why u choose libya
20:39
its about libya being the wrong flag
20:39
xd
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It is the only solid flag that I found
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lol
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 20:40:07Z
nvm
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@qshar is going to use the green flag like hitler used the star of david.
20:42
GWapustaja
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ye he is like hitler
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My excuses to everybody who feels insulted, it was not intended like that. I couldn't resist posting this brainfart.
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Just like always. Spending many hours of life to develop and to make the players happy, but as a result get some trolling and such messages :feelsbadmаn:
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cry me a river
21:05
tbh this was obviusly not meant seriusly
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@qshar GWmythicalFeelsSadMan
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I know, no worries
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ChillerDragon 2018-07-05 21:09:06Z
looooooooooool
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delewhoopers
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