DDraceNetwork - general

Hi, is TeecTac (who made teeworlds-stats.info) here? https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9662

Teeworlds statistics (Page 1) — Community News — Teeworlds Forum

Teeworlds statistics (Page 1) — Community News — Teeworlds Forum — Everything Teeworlds!

no

bye bye mkjol

3

Did I miss something? Is that new? https://i.imgur.com/tYbVDnS.png

What do you mean ?

authorized player instead of mod

Helpers and mods can force vote no when someone gets kicked (edited)

oh that means helper?

Maybe because new helper role

08:06

Authorized player combines the two roles

ah oké

@heinrich5991 why you close https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6495&start=20#p65278

09:15

it was such an interesting discussion

09:16

@heinrich5991 it starts looking like gg kid has the reason: https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6528#p65588 (edited)

09:17

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=65591#p65591

09:17

when will gdin be removed?

09:18

atleast you cannot prevent me from discussing this here :)

09:18

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6495&start=20#p65275

09:21

i am coming to the conclusion myself that the rule about not discussing about staff members is a complete injustice and really unfair. You don't notice the injustice until it affects you, but since you are an admin @heinrich5991 i guess you don't even notice

thats what i said a long time ago

and i'm copying this text and saving it, ill repost it everyday to make you remember this is unfair (edited)

lets change this rule

09:30

and also remove gdin

lol

whats all this about gdin

they even moved the thread

09:33

to a more hideable site

09:33

sec i find it

09:33

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6495

09:33

u can read it all there

09:33

ofc they ended up closing it

09:34

due to rule 11 of user guidelines

09:34

which im gonna make a post now against it

"Moderators and administrators have the final say on anything." lol

well thats pretty normal

read the rule completly

09:37

11. Moderators and administrators have the final say on anything.
If you have a problem, you may make a complaint to them directly and not publicly on the forum. Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, such as post removals and thread closures, is not permitted. We are not perfect and if you feel that we have made a mistake, please privately contact a staff member and we will review the situation.

09:38

@noby thats the thing

yea i think the last part could be a problem

but i'm not even user about Moderators and administrators have the final say on anything.

well by definition its true because theyre the ones with power

09:39

but i dont think it means they have to censor all complaints

I don't see any problem, it's normal.

put goverments for example, there is always the oposition, and the one with power, usually in normal countries with "normal" democracy the oposition can speak freely. Yet the power will have majority and thus the final vote

2

09:41

but censoring the oposition is not good

2

09:41

never

you are funny comparing a game to a government (edited)

nice argument

good morning

it's not comparable

What are you discussing

hello

i think it is completly comparable

Ddnet leader

me

we are discussing the combat of Ryosuki for democracy because he don't like the way ddnet is handled

[4:41 AM] Amu~Cookie: you are funny comparing a game to a government(edited) thats how an analogy works ..

it's Ryozuki

09:42

not ryosuki

I dont like it too

09:43

jao can decide everything

there is your right

bad

@noby thats not a good analogy however lol

why not

09:43

explain further

09:44

well it's true we all can agree that ddnet resembles more a dictatorship than a democracy

rofl

if blizzard decides that they dont want to sell a subscription to you anymore, you can make a fuss all you want, its their good right but no one thinks north korea is okay its a completely different thing

this is not a corporation or company

no one is saying ddnet administration is as important as real life governments its just an example of how power is divided in different systems wtf

If we play a game it's not for talking about politics

@heinrich5991 what you think

09:46

it's not politics imo, its the way administration works

you can say your opinion to admin they will listen. But if they choose to not agree with you. you don't need to cry and scream dictator

"admins will listen"

09:48

yeah closing every thread about them is listening

why not asking in private then ?

09:48

they will listen

i like open discussions where everyone can give his opinion

09:49

and imo it shouldn't be private

09:49

i think everyone should know what administration is doing to judge if they are doing correctly or not

09:50

there are sure some things u want to keep private such as password etc

09:50

but lot of decisions dont involve that

09:50

they ofc prefer people to not know and keep them ignorant

09:50

thats why they want private discussions about staff

09:51

and their only argument is that it can start witch hunting

09:51

but they can use their moderative power

09:51

to prevent that

09:51

and imo its worth even with witch hunting

[4:48 AM] Amu~Cookie: why not asking in private then ? thats the whole point of this conversation

09:52

that requiring all admin complaints to be private could be a bad thing

I think you are taking thing too seriously

09:52

And what i saw from the closed thread, that's is was meant only to spread hate on someone

please this thing about "dont take it too seriously" i find it ridiculous, ddnet has a big community that imo administration should be taken seriously

1

09:53

there is also a lot of decisions in ddnet, map releases, new features, etc

next time a user has a problem the admin should just tell them its an online game and dont take it seriously

but don't worry, this chat will soon be filled with another convo and be forgotten forever, that's what happens with most of this discussions

because people don't care maybe

2

but now I wait to see if we are getting censored. Because you said they censor us

if you mean in discord, i think you didnt read it all

09:59

im talking about the forum

you can still read the closed thread

09:59

and you can still discuss here

09:59

where is the censor

as i said, discord discussions go fast and get forgotten soon, thats why i think they wont bother deleting this

10:00

the censor is that you cannot continue the discussion

its funny because you wanted us to ban prankster from here and to "handle his stupidness" (how is that different from censorship?) you even blamed us for not doing anything when he started trolling in there, but when he continues his troll on forum and gets locked its a huge drama

10:03

thats the thing, he started trolling

and you wanted us to actually "censor" him

10:03

which we didnt do

10:04

now hes polluting forum so we lock the threads, and you cry

10:04

OK

he opened a second thread do to you closing the first

because it was troll + not following the rule u disagree with + polluting forum?

he broken ingame rules several times

he literally wrote a big long ass text to keep on trolling

10:05

but apparently thats ok on forum for u

10:05

while on discord he should be instantly censored

prankster was not just complaining about staff but he was being annoying and it is clear that many people complained about his annoyance.

if a troll or any other person makes a post on the forum complaining about a ban or something, which looks more suspicious -the admin replying and saying nah u deserved the ban bcs _ -the topic getting deleted/hidden/locked immediately

and is it not obvious that these forum posts are just a way to continue his annoyance?

10:07

what he says is full of shit

And what you say about https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6495

@noby nothing gets hidden or deleted lol, stop making up things

i said hidden/deleted/locked because i didnt know which of the three things were happening

10:12

but its the same idea i think

not at all

10:12

its locked with the reason aka the rule being quoted

10:12

aka "feel free to pm an admin to solve th situation"

10:13

its not like it gets locked and then we ignore the guy

go heinrich answer all the questions

the rule about "no discussion about moderation in public" is very common. it's used to stop witch hunts before they start. it assumes that the admins generally act reasonably, but if that's the case, then it reduces the total work load

thanks for ignoring all the discussion

10:18

and thats not true

can someone give me a neutral TL;DR of the discussion this morning?

Re: User Guidelines

Post by Schwertspize » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:03 am
in $11 of the User Guidelines

    (...) please privately contact a staff member and we will review the situation.

why privately? on SE (Stack Exchange) there is always a Meta Page where you can ask the moderators about why they did somethinf, what is allowed and so on. it would be easy to add such a forum where you can ask these things public because, I quote many forum/mailinglist rules, "everything which is private will only help you and won't help the community"
you can manage it like the staff forum, where you place strict rules.

i think there should be a place where admins have to explain theirselfes to the community, not only to one user.

10:20

you can easily implement that

10:20

and i'm sure stack exchange is a example as community

10:20

(i mean, its a good one, and well done)

hmm i'm not sure about that (edited)

10:20

but yeah it's subjectiv (edited)

shall I follow this thread or shall I also address other questions from today

10:23

I feel like doing any of the two could be interpreted as negative

if you can answer why you closed that thread about gdin and why he is still there (https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6495)

10:24

and why you moved it

I closed and moved it due to the rule you know and that I consider sensible

In my opinion there wasn't witch hunting

10:25

but ok

10:25

now you can answer the quote i made about the meta page

no, but it was "discussion of moderation [or moderators or admins] in public"

10:26

we can try it out if you want. you could create that page and if the additional work load seems reasonable, then we can go with it

this problem could easily be solved making a section in the forum where you can make public complains about the staff, ofc they can be moderated to prevent insults etc. I would also like the post about gdin to be reopened

even on your quoted example, the discussion platform was not inline

10:27

to even stop any accusations of corruptedness it would be best if an outsider moderated the forum

i think it becomes quite obvius when someone is making insults or not

yes how you draw the limit between public complaint and hate spreading or defamatory

that's the job of the unbiased third party

i would still go for it.

if ryozuki would create the forum, then the usual suspects wouldn't have the rights to do anything there

"everything which is private will only help you and won't help the community"

and if the work load doesn't increase in a way that we can't support, then we can continue doing that

even if there are some discussions that can be difamatory

10:29

there are also good discussions

I dont think so

cool. let's try it out. create a forum or whatever you want and we can certainly link to it

10:30

call it an experiment

why another forum? why not a section in the currentforum?

because it should be out of line IMO

10:31

e.g. on stack overflow it's also not the same platform

10:31

you have to intentionally click "meta"

10:31

for the rust community, there's a dedicated team [which contains no one from any other teams] that deals with complaints with team members

we could try that yes

10:32

but who would moderate it

you?

fine

10:33

but what if i make the complain

10:33

i could also be biased

then you maybe need to find another moderator

but that has a obvius downside

10:36

most people wouldnt see the complains

yes, like on the example you showed: stack overflow

10:36

but people interested in them can click the link

I am wondering what @Ryozuki point is. I never had/saw a moderator do wrong except not being there, which is obviously not possible all the time. I think the team is doing a fair job and ofcourse people's reasons are questionable some times but you dont know the background of the story most of the time. They try to do their job like they think it should and do what they think is the best in that situation and is the for ddnet.

"you dont know the background of the story most of the time" why we cannot fix that

10:53

" I think the team is doing a fair job" and they removed chiller because of his opinion and nott his actions

For starters the helper role is almost useless so i think he doesn't care.

i spoke to him

10:54

and he cares

10:55

that doesn't justify the unfairness

10:55

so they dont always do a fair job

10:55

why we cant judge it by making discussions about it? instead of getting them closed

But i don't want to burn my fingers on this discussion. The thing i know is that if you are being a helper, you can't aldo anything wrong with the powers given to you

you can do a lot wrong

10:56

you could vote no when a blocker is being voted off

10:56

and more things

Yeah that is obvious but than you got bad intentions

11:00

If you wanna do good you can't do anything wrong.

not really true

11:01

i once banned 4 people with the same name to make slots free (they werent playing) and i got shit for it

@Im 'corneum well that is not possible for helpers