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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2018-06-05 00:00:00Z and 2018-06-06 00:00:00Z
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Hey guys, I have a question about the demo recording/demo after edit. My problem is that I activated /showothers during the run and now you see other people in the demo too. Is there a way to just show me and my teampartner again although its a demo and already recorded? Because you can clear out name plates and stuff like that after recording a demo. I just didn't find a way to reverse the /showothers comand afterwards....
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OpenGL legacy on macos?
05:16
lel
05:16
i want you to use my software! - apple (edited)
05:17
Often, when we meet other game developers and say that we use OpenGL for our game Overgrowth, we're met with stares of disbelief -- why would anyone use OpenGL? DirectX is the future. When we tell graphics card representatives that we use OpenGL, the temperature of the room d...
05:18
Microsoft initiated a fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) campaign against OpenGL around the release of Windows Vista. In 2003, Microsoft left the OpenGL Architecture Review Board -- showing that they no longer had any interest in the future of OpenGL. Then in 2005, they gave presentations at SIGGRAPH (special interest group for graphics) and WinHEC (Windows Hardware Engineering Conference) giving the impression that Windows Vista would remove support for OpenGL except to maintain back-compatibility with XP applications. This version of OpenGL would be layered on top of DirectX as shown here, (from the HEC presentation) causing a dramatic performance hit. This campaign led to panic in the OpenGL community, leading many professional graphics programmers to switch to DirectX. When Vista was released, it backpedaled on its OpenGL claims, allowing vendors to create fast installable client drivers (ICDs) that restore native OpenGL support. The OpenGL board sent out newsletters proving that OpenGL is still a first-class citizen, and that OpenGL performance on Vista was still at least as fast as Direct3D. Unfortunately for OpenGL, the damage had already been done -- public confidence in OpenGL was badly shaken.
07:04
6564b93 Fix unwanted dummy fire - ChillerDragon 0a72849 Merge pull request #1134 from ChillerDragon/DummyHammerflyFix - def-
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cd94e9b robots.txt: Disallow /skins/edit/ - def-
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 08:05:49Z
@NiYa i dont think its possible why would you even want to do that?
08:08
@deen do you know how the timezones for github activity work? The Github bot said u merged my commit at 9 german time. But in my contributions graph i have zer0 contributions today and it got added as yesterdays contribution?
08:08
did microsoft fucked up already? .-.
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 08:25:39Z
oh or does it depend on when i created the commit?
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yes, it depends on that
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 08:40:24Z
hm rip oke
08:40
always hate on ms c:
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always hate on apple !
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 08:52:22Z
no
bluekitty 1
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@ChillerDragon for a video
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 09:46:08Z
why dont u want to see the other tees? I could understand the other way around if the tees glitch away if u zooz during recording this can suck but when all tees are there where is the problem?
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Oh no. Not Microsoft!.... Arghhhh... Github was such a good project. WHY?! :-(
10:44
MS just breaks everything they touch. I don't waht the same for github
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I don't think they will break github since they were their first contributor the last few year but we will see
10:46
If shit happen : git out and git lab
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I bet such companies as Nokia and Skype thought the same way when they dealed with MS, but we all know what happen then
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:07:52Z
yay another discord to hate ms xd
11:08
woops i thought we are on kog discord bcs qshar is here xxxxD @qshar hello
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xD hey Chiller
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Its a speedrun and at some point they cross our gameplay, im planning to add parts of it in a video and i consider it as annoying to see 😁 if theres no possibility I just have to deal with it I guss
11:25
Thx anyways
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:26:04Z
are they out of range and you use zooz while recording?
11:26
hmmm idk if its possible to remove them
11:26
wait ! i have an idea
11:26
do they use different skins like you do? If yes then get their skin in your folder and replace it with an empty png file so they are invisible
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<@227863585542504448>
11:37
hm
11:37
@heinrich5991
11:38
<@227863585542504448>
11:38
<@227863585542504448>#9827
11:38
@\heinrich5991
11:38
<#293493549758939136>
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:38:48Z
@Dev sombody looking for a ruby on rails job? maintaing some software for a little german tutorial company. They lost their ukrain dev team due gdpr
11:39
@NiYa that should defnetly work (wanted to ping u agian maybe u didnt read it)
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@ heinrich5991
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:39:50Z
@heinrich5991
11:41
@ChillerDragon
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@abc
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:41:46Z
where do u even get the 12893182938 numbers from?
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173505964433997824
11:41
chiller u are those numbers
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:42:06Z
xd
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put a \ before your @ChillerDragon
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:42:07Z
?
11:42
<@173505964433997824>
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right click and copy id
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:42:18Z
ah
11:42
interesting
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at least that's how I accidently printed those numbers
11:42
right now
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:42:35Z
what r u testing?
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escaping of @'s
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:43:00Z
why?
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@heinrich5991 u can also do that in a own server/channel to not spam feelsgoodman 🤷
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your PR
11:43
@Ryozuki I don't have an own server, but fair, I could create one
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:43:23Z
ah i see to escape it in the help message
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i made a own server to test these things
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:43:37Z
just remove @ xd
11:43
no wait u dont have to @heinrich5991
11:43
i already did it
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yep I know
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:43:53Z
with the markdown
11:44
@heinrich5991#9827
11:44
thats why the @Modertartor is printed before the `` starts
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\` (edited)
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:44:48Z
just try on my server
11:44
i could turn on my teeworlds server too if u want
11:45
should i?
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nah, it's fine @ the latter
11:45
but then again, maybe other people could point out flaws if I test it here
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:46:04Z
yea
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anyway, I'm done I think
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:46:38Z
did u get the libcurl part working?
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looks like the only way to escape @ in normal speech is to put a @ after it
11:46
no. I'm just preliminarily testing 🙂
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:46:56Z
k
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[quakenet] <nameless_tee> blbl
11:47
[quakenet] <nameless_tee> @ChillerDragon#0643
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:47:58Z
<@173505964433997824>
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[quakenet] <nameless_tee> @ChillerDragon
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 11:48:12Z
ah cool that works
11:48
u can ping from irc
11:48
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huh
11:52
interesting
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@ChillerDragon alright gonna try that this evening thx
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SHA256 was chosen because it is reasonably standard, the file names don't explode in length (this rules out SHA512) and it is supported by basically all versions of OpenSSL (this rules out SHA512/256 and SHA3). The protocol is changed in a backward compatible way: The supporting server sends the SHA256 corresponding to the map in the MAP_DETAILS message prior to sending the MAP_CHANGE message. The client saves the SHA256 obtained from the MAP_DETAILS message until the next `MAP...
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 15:33:45Z
crypto hype
15:33
xd
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hm?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 15:34:16Z
sha256
15:34
xd
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ye. it's a pretty standard secure hash function
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 15:34:49Z
ikr
15:35
but still it got fame due to the bitcoin hype
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[freenode] <nemo> ChillerDragon: does it explicitly need the "@" thing? or does standard highlighting like this work?
16:25
[freenode] <nemo> I guess @ is more explicit
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 16:33:00Z
?
16:33
only these weird number works to highlight from irc bridge
16:33
16:33
i dont know if u tried but iu didnt highlight me
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@ChillerDragon how can use white discord
17:08
you always kill my eyes with your screenshots xD
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 17:08:52Z
xxxD
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@Learath2 want to take a look at my sha256 map hash feature? 🙂
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 19:49:03Z
its chiller approved
19:50
NSA constants!
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have you taken a look at it?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 19:50:26Z
ye
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if you're on windows, could you test map download?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 19:50:44Z
oh ye
19:50
sec
19:50
i only looked on github
19:51
im sure i fail to build it xd
19:51
how do i even build pullrequests?
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I want to build the ddnet client with emojis but I don't know how
20:02
developers help me! I was always nice with you!
20:03
oh wait did emojie already used cmake?
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I'm not sure I should watch this video, there is be careful sign.
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@ChillerDragon do you use command-line git or what do you use?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:06:57Z
cl
20:07
ye
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@heinrich5991 looks fine to me
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@ChillerDragon git fetch origin pull/1136/head (edited)
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:30:27Z
what does happen then
20:30
if i create a new pr?
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@ChillerDragon i don't think lola just wants to build the old version with emojis, he could just download that from ddnet.tw. he probably wants to merge all new changes in with that, which turns out to be not so easy because of text caching system that we now have
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:31:01Z
hm
20:31
im probably too knoop to do it
20:31
sawwy @lola
20:33
20:33
i cant even use precompiler stuff
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emojis it the best feature 😦 I don't know why they removed it
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:34:37Z
i dislike emojies o.O
banhammer 1
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:35:09Z
they remind me of the mobile generation stepping away from computers
20:35
hanging around on instagram and whatsapp all day and posting random emojis after every sentence
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grandpa is speaking? 😛
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:35:45Z
xd
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the first time i agree with @ChillerDragon
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:36:05Z
i dislike the mobile trend it harm sthe productivity
20:36
once i was at a apple store and there was a guy who wanted to buy an strong ipad to cut his movies
20:37
i mean wtf?! why would u want to buy an mobile device for videoeiting? it is such an bad workflow there and very limited software and possiblitys
20:38
i only use emojies on discord because discord is pretty desktop supportive but i want them out of teeworlds o.O
20:38
yo @heinrich5991 do you know what my compilier tries to tell me?
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makes no sense... teeworlds is desktop too
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:39:03Z
yes
20:39
i mostly dont make sense to others c: but it somehow feels wrong to see emojis in teeworlds.
20:40
20:40
@heinrich5991 nvm fixed it c:
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@ChillerDragon have you tested the PR? 🙂
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:42:27Z
not yet im still in the middle of my haxxor bot
20:42
and i am scared that it kills my repo
20:42
maybe i set up a testlab ddnet repo
20:42
ill try in a few minutes no angst c:
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:55:35Z
i did ur fecth cmd but i cant find your pr in git log or gitk
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after the fetch, the reference you can use is FETCH_HEAD
20:57
@ChillerDragon
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:57:37Z
20:57
hwo to use FETCH_HEAD ?
20:57
is this a branch
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kinda, yes
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:58:16Z
its not listed in git branch
20:58
how do i use it?
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yes
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:58:22Z
just type it?
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it's something you can git checkout
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:58:31Z
lool
20:58
20:58
as always nhothing working for me .-.
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git checkout FETCH_HEAD
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 20:59:43Z
oh wow
20:59
im much wow brain xd was a long day bro
21:00
ah nice now i defnetly see ur pr
21:00
but cmake still could not load the cache
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is there a CMakeCache.txt in this folder?
21:00
that's the cache
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:00:51Z
oh
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otherwise, create one: cmake ..
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:00:57Z
wait its empty i just mkdired it
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^^
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:01:05Z
ye im still cmake knoop i guess
21:01
should i test client or server @heinrich5991 ?
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[quakenet] <heinrich5991> test the client, and download a map from a server
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:01:54Z
a servr?
21:01
so old server?
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[quakenet] <heinrich5991> yes
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:02:03Z
kk
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then start the new server. and download a map from the new server
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:02:45Z
with old client?
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no, with the new client
21:03
[but yes, I have forgotten to test that, too]
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:03:06Z
so always new client and all servers
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yes
21:03
but make sure you actually download the map!
21:03
and not just load it from downloadedmaps or so
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:03:47Z
ye ikr
21:04
shpuld i check the downloaded maps files then?
21:04
i joined ddnet server and downloaded 2Long worked fine
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no, just check whether it works, that you can enter the game
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:04:49Z
k
21:04
test 1 success!
21:05
uhm i need a new map for my local server
21:05
sec
21:08
21:08
server looking good c:
21:08
21:08
succesfully joined the new map on new server with new client
21:09
test 2 success!
21:09
the map xxxd its xyz ddrace on drugs
21:10
so no old cleint new server test needed?
21:16
nvm that works too test 3 succes! the inofficial test with old client and new server worked fine as well c:
21:16
it also works to load the downloaded maps
21:17
is ther anything else to test or can i delete my test lab now @heinrich5991 ?
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Any plan on moving away from github?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:20:06Z
not yet i hope
21:20
guess we stay until ms fucks something up
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@ChillerDragon how did you get so many discord servers? you are crazy
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:20:55Z
im tw fanboi
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@ChillerDragon those all about tw?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:21:00Z
so i collect all tw discords
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:21:07Z
im in 2 non tw discords
21:24
I think this is the only channel to hide from jao
21:24
He hates me
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He hates me aswell no need to be sad
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He hates everyone
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Thanks for support guys
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no problem
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:26:59Z
and everybody hates u lola :p
21:27
jk i love you ❤
❤ 1
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@ChillerDragon no, that's all
21:28
@Learath2 you can merge now if you want 🙂
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@heinrich5991
21:29
what is 5991?
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mystery
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tell me
21:29
the truth
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definitely not the result of twelve-year-old me trying to think of a nick name
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:30:25Z
his birth year
21:30
obviously
21:30
heinrich from ze future
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xxxxxD
21:30
@heinrich5991 is your real name heinrich?
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no 🙂
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:31:05Z
no its 5991
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:31:12Z
u
21:31
nobelium uranium (edited)
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i have more commits on ddpp than timakrofeelsamazingman danAmazing
21:31
@ChillerDragon
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:32:05Z
wp
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who is timakro?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:32:24Z
i have more commits on ddnet than onby and still not in the credits list
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nobo
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:32:53Z
i have even more than savander and CookieMichael
21:33
nobo
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make a PR adding yourself to the credits list
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:33:28Z
xd
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I'll merge it
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:33:32Z
lul
21:33
can i do it too @heinrich5991
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:33:51Z
ye pls i cant commit today
21:34
i mean my name
21:34
xD (edited)
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:34:06Z
hehe
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@ChillerDragon stupid idea to have that limit
21:34
even tho i know why
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:34:52Z
no commit limits is best
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:35:09Z
21:35
xD
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:35:34Z
xd
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@NeXus spielt ccleaner64, gj
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Oh I forgot there is no jao to ban feelsamazingman
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to have what limit?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:36:39Z
contributoon on github
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he wants to make a symbol in his acitvity graph
21:36
a heart
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:37:00Z
i already failed it yesterday due to the unexpected pr and merging behaviour
21:37
ye tell my scret inpublic archived chat fokko xd
21:37
?
21:37
is this Archived?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:37:34Z
#developer is connected to irc and irc is archived in the web
21:37
ye
21:37
xD
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:37:50Z
all ur futur bosses will read all the messages here
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I want to make pull request, do I need to learn git for this?
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no u
21:38
lola yes
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:38:08Z
git is ez
21:38
xd
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is it hard?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:38:27Z
git add credits-ddnet "lola"
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@lola you can also use the web interface of github
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:38:48Z
no but thats not gangzter hax0r like
21:38
u need green numbers flying around
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I'll try it!
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:39:10Z
hehe lola in dev team
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@heinrich5991 lemme get home
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:39:17Z
im really looking forward to troll prs
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@ChillerDragon I like that movie
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I wonder who of our usual trolls decided to use the lola name btw 😛
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:39:46Z
heueueueu
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"usual troll" sounds as insult
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:40:40Z
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:41:11Z
xd
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I like this movie as well
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:44:44Z
http://puu.sh/AzLaB/b99383df9e.png uffa the sha256 really creates long map names
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thank me for not using sha512
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:45:28Z
ikr
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would've been twice as long
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omg it's really long
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:45:34Z
but crc was so cute c:
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and trivially insecure
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:45:56Z
hmmm .-.
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you need to test ~60k maps to get a collision in any 32bit hash
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:47:30Z
so 20 of the maps im working on rn collide in hash lol?
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? 🙂
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:48:00Z
xd
21:48
ChillerDragores0-999999
21:48
xd
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ey @ChillerDragon eigentlich wäre es schlauer map portale auf ddpp zu haben wie auf BW und nicht die maps in der main map drin haben xd
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:48:48Z
ja hab ich mir vorhin auch schon gedacht
21:48
als ich diese weirden maps in heinrichs db endeckt habe
21:49
wäre sau geil die db von heinrich an zu ztapfen un ddann auf ddpp servern adventure mäßige alle ab zu kalppern
21:49
no nazi lang in #developer pls
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:49:39Z
translate pls
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speak french pls
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:49:46Z
baguett
21:49
fromage
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:49:57Z
nobelium
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:50:08Z
xd
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baguette magique
😯 1
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:52:11Z
ah interesting if i have a crc version it doesnt download the sh one @heinrich5991 is this intended even if both server and client are new?
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that happens if the crc version has the correct sha256
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 21:57:27Z
brownbear 2
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:03:50Z
22:04
@heinrich5991 thes nums are actually provided by the NSA arent they?
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are there no problems with older linux system with that long names?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:04:56Z
what is max map name for maps?
22:06
#developer just became #showroom xd
22:06
hopefully (at)jao#5991 wont recognize our secret activity here
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i only find max_name length at 255bytes \0 but im not quite sure how linux handles the name files actually
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@Deleted User no
22:14
the only problematic thing is windows
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:14:34Z
as always xd
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windows has (by default at least) a limit of 260 characters for the full path to files
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:15:33Z
fuul path!`wtf
22:15
paths can get long
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chiller ofc only older windows
22:15
modern has 32k or smth
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@Deleted User no. even windows 10
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:16:04Z
hm
22:16
xdddd
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as long as you don't use \\?\ paths
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:16:24Z
no jao spotted us
22:16
pss
22:16
remove the media
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there's an option in windows 10 now to enable the new 32k limit
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:16:29Z
xd
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but it's opt-in for now
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so I couldnt use your cool sha2048?
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do you have a source for the linux limit tho?
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by the file system, I think
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i see the full path can be 4096
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256 per component, MAX_PATH is 4096 IIRC
22:17
The ext4 or fourth extended filesystem is a journaling file system for Linux, developed as the successor to ext3.
22:17
Max. filename length 255 bytes
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:18:05Z
maybe we need a file storing tge hashes
22:18
no wait that doesnt make sense
22:18
xd
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why? (edited)
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:18:19Z
a database?
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what is tws limit for filenames then?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:18:28Z
because the the file name is not enough space
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255 - 64 - 4 ?
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why should your map name be longer than 100 chars?
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just wodnering, if the editor should disallow that then
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meh
22:19
just people's own fault
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k xd
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:19:24Z
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now I see why everyone hates microsoft
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but yeah older ext version all fine ok, thats what i wanted
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:20:58Z
xd
22:21
weclome in the club @lola
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i dont hate them, neither i love them
22:21
they have the most glitchless desktop enviroment IMO
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@Deleted User you can't be like that
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:21:32Z
but dont hate too much keep in mind all this data is public and archived @lola
22:22
macOS is glitchlesser
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macos is the glitch
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but I don't share my data, how it can be public?
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:22:25Z
xd
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BSD is the best
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:22:36Z
BSd c:
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but too old drivers always xD
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:22:51Z
i never tested it et
22:22
its on the long todo
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and KDE has glitches too
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windows 10 is not that bad as 8
22:23
believe me
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well linux is awesome for developping things
22:24
but GUIs arent great in many apps. depends on if you like to use them or not
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I want developing things
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nice
22:25
then i suggest you something like debian
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but I don't know how to start
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:25:20Z
sololearn.com
22:25
add me as friend there is my main handgout 24/7
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:30:41Z
for real as a beginner i can really recommend this site it is very motivating c:
22:30
with rankings and xp and stuff
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just never learn java, or i get cancer
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:31:09Z
hehe
22:31
i am planing to make that course
22:31
even tho i really dislike java somehow
22:31
but its fame and i guess it will help me some day since a lot of stuff is written in it
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i mostly hate that android's system uses JNI and shit. and java is slow
22:32
so its wasting my good energy
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java is surprisingly fast
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no
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enterprise software is what's slow
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the problem is useless RAM wasting, useless Array checks. Exceptions
22:33
i never heard of fast java apps
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 22:34:11Z
all expierences i had with java were slow .-.
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no. array checks and exceptions are not what is slowing down java programs
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well ofc bytecode too
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which is JITed
22:37
i.e. compiled at runtime
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but the problem is the more RAM must be loaded, the more RAM comes in action
22:37
yes wow
22:37
so much better than compiling before
22:37
especially for dektop enviroments using x86_64
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that's not what I said
22:38
but I don't think your claim "java is slow" is really true
22:38
e.g. intellij idea is a piece of java software that is well-done
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i think there is
22:38
any overhead creates makes something slow
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no
22:39
otherwise c++ would be dead slow 😛
22:39
because it creates overhead over C
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indeed
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but it's not
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that makes it a few nanoseconds slower than c
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but that isn't what makes some piece of software feel slow
22:39
and even that is wrong
22:39
that depends on the feature set you use
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indeed, but if you have a high performance algorithm or a game you feel it
22:40
well sure, if you write a loop adding 1 to your register
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no. not whether you compiled your code with c or c++
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java might be just as fast wow xD
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java is indeed not the language I'd choose for games
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yeah c and c++ are near to each other, but having objects with vtables etc. needs more RAM loading
22:41
that is slow
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what's bad for performance in java is e.g. that there's no way to create value types
22:42
i.e. types that aren't boxed
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thats what i meant with their RAM wasting actually
22:42
everything is an object
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that's not a problem
22:42
the boxing is the problem
22:43
you can put everything in C++ classes as you wish, that won't slow down runtime
22:43
[it will slow down compile time a little]
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and how is that not a problem then
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the slower compile time you mean?
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no, you mean the problem is it isn't boxed.. ofc it's not boxed, since everything is an object.. you only store references.
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boxed = behind a reference
22:46
at least that's how I know the term
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yes
22:46
so where is that not a problem?
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problematic for java performance is that you can't declare [except for primitive types] that something shouldn't be boxed
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creating an object in java is that isnt it
22:47
as soon you create something it's an object(a reference
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yes [unless it gets killed by escape analysis]
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any object in java has it's address and stuff you can access
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yes. but that's not really a problem of objects
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and its class name xD
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C++ has objects, too
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indeed
22:48
you can increase the class size instead of pointing to the object
22:48
i know what you mean, but you sad its not a problem
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I don't understand
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boxed = boxing things together
22:49
4 floats make a class 4 * 4 bytes
22:49
in java floats are boxable
22:49
but Floats not
22:49
because Floats are objects xD
22:49
something like that
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okay, then we have different definitions of 'box'
22:50
the problem I wanted to mention is that everything has to be behind a pointer
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well that's atleast i imagine as the definition of the word xD
22:50
yeah thats the consequence
22:50
if its not boxable
22:50
it's not a "default" datatype
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ok, can you stop using that word? if we have different definitions, it's not useful
22:51
yes. the problem we [apparently?] both agree on is that you can't have value types, types that aren't behind a pointer
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yeah
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you can't create aggregations of values that aren't possibly put behind another allocation
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mh ok, boxing is meant like putting it in
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so. then – have you tried intellij? it's a nice piece of software …written in java 🙂
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yeah probably the opposite of what i thought
22:52
whats special about intellij
22:52
i mean i used android studio
22:53
or dont u mean the IDE
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I mean the IDE
22:53
you asked for a good piece of java software. I think that's one of them
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yeah from idea wise sure
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android studio 🤢
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but in the end i care about performance
22:53
minecraft java is also a good game
22:53
doesnt mean it performce well
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Always took 30 mins to start at univ
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no. it's not well written IMO
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can't work on this ide
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@Amu~Cookie mh. doesn't here. and I don't have a good PC
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i doubt u can increase the performance alot
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android studio ?
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@Amu~Cookie yes
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the mobile version (and win10 version) works better
22:55
since it uses some c++ framework i think
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of what?
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minecraft
22:55
how do you tell its badly written
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I believe these had more constraints than the normal version
22:56
i.e. less block height, etc.
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not really anymore
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ok
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minecraft java is always a bit more modern
22:56
but chunk loading etc is insanly much faster
22:56
or TNT explosion
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I have a terrible experience with android studio because it's alway seem to do huge task on startup @heinrich5991 but that's was more than 2 year ago so I dont know now
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@Amu~Cookie perhaps the machines have too little RAM
22:58
that's usually the first reason why programs start slowing down
22:58
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and the whole plugin(overwrite) stuff makes java slow at startup
22:59
dunno if google uses complete own impl tho
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yeah
23:05
But now I rethink about it. It was probably a huge server issue combined with ram. Since the data were stored on server that sometime took us more than 20 minutes to start only our windows session.
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ChillerDragon 2018-06-05 23:08:46Z
lol @heinrich5991 i already thought about faking it... it sucks that there is even a full automated website for it
23:09
well my art is going to be real and it has some flaws due its realness c:
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