DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2018-05-01 00:00:00Z and 2018-05-02 00:00:00Z

The bot is called Konsti

@Im 'corneum no, the bot called "maps.ddnet.tw" is the one for maps.ddnet.tw

07:42

mine is called "downloader" I think

07:43

@Im 'corneum the source is here: https://github.com/heinrich5991/libtw2/blob/master/downloader/src/main.rs

heinrich5991/libtw2

libtw2 - Some Teeworlds stuff in Rust

a teeworlds server cant host its on http map server?

08:14

and theres no way to upload their own maps to maps.ddnet.tw?

@ZombieToad you can send it to us

will you accept 100MB map? :D

why is it 100MB?

i havent made it yet

but why does it need 100MB? ^^

lots of embedded memes

^^

and nsfw

10 yrs to download

:q

09:25

w/c

I stole dozens of maps from heinrich index

wanna make up for that by sending me your downloadedmaps folder?

if u want

sure

but there are a lot of test mals also

it's ok if you're fine with them perhaps landing on the map list

Where to send u

upload it to a hoster (like solidfiles.com) and send me the link

when u are already done in uploading maps u could also apply my Fix :O

460.51 KB

09:44

this folder is 2,3gb @heinrich5991 xd

that's cool

HMM

Image attachment

09:47

so slow

09:47

xD

k i zip it now

you could've zipped it immediately.

09:56

before copying ^^

xD ye i see it now

09:56

but i wanted to be safe

virus.exe.map

HMM

no u

this.will.totally.not.harm.your.computer.exe

ye there will be troll maps in that folder (edited)

@Deleted User ur maps? GWcentralCHOCO

GWcentralCHOCO

GWtloLaugh

10:08

GWsplUwu

@heinrich5991 the download prepares some time, dont press on the advertisement troll

troll

…

?

10:10

just saying that there could be advertisement

yea ok ^^

10:11

Sehr geehrter Benutzer, Wir haben bemerkt, dass Sie einen Werbeblocker benutzen.

10:11

jdownloader it is?

no its transfernow thonkery

thonkery

10:14

@deen showall message is back feelsbadman

feelsbadman

@deen @Learath2 https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/1091#issuecomment-385644076 thoughts?

Add infrastructure for preserving bugs by heinrich5991 · Pull Req...

Unfix the grenade bug for "Binary".

unfix it for everywhere O:

10:48

heinrich did u get the maps

[quakenet] <Learath2> heinrich5991: guess having it two ways doesnt make much sense

@Ryozuki cool forum

11:20

but

11:20

https://gyazo.com/30094118d042be9fe9246f5bf0fa623d

@ᶰ°Konͧsti yea, got it

HMM

hm?

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> Learath2: the idea would be that you can fix it in old maps in the code and if you change the map, you don't have to change the source

11:51

[quakenet] <Learath2> how about a global cfg with crc, bug pairs?

11:51

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> that's essentially what this is?

11:51

[quakenet] <Learath2> we don't have to edit the source to fix maps and we can fix maps without changing the old maps

11:52

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> but then we'd have the centralization problem that deen mentioned (?)

11:52

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> i.e. you can't fix maps without updating the global config

the physics should be the same on every map..

[quakenet] <Learath2> too late for that

11:54

[quakenet] <Learath2> heinrich5991: hmm, I feel editing the source for a map fix feels meh

11:56

[quakenet] <Learath2> lets just remove Binary and call it a day :P

12:02

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> Learath2: backward compatibility \o/

12:02

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> do you feel it? :P

12:03

[quakenet] <Learath2> hmm, we enable mapbug on a map in the source, someone doesn't want to on their server, what do?

12:03

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> we do it for backward-compatibility

12:04

[quakenet] <heinrich5991> if they want it without the bug, change the map ever so slightly, so that the crc changes

I like Learaths idea of fixing it by deleting Binary troll

troll

we should apply the same idea on getspeed 2 thonkery

thonkery

GWchadThonkery

12:09

This is how qshar and kamillentee fix things on KoG

12:09

if something is bugged they just delete it

12:09

cuz lazy

troll

12:09

danAmazing

wtf

Its true

12:10

xd

12:10

"Its not an insult if its true GWchadThonkery

GWchadThonkery

"

GWchadThonkery

6

thonkery

6

"it's not an insult if it's true" – not particularly true

Calling a retard a retard is rude but not an insult GWchadThonkery

GWchadThonkery

xD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insult

An insult is an expression or statement (or sometimes behavior) which is disrespectful or scornful. Insults may be intentional or accidental. An insult may be factual, but at the same time pejorative, such as the word "inbred".

13:03

literally the second sentence

13:03

*third

then every truth is a insult

13:04

if i want it to be a insult

may be factual

@noby nobo

13:04

its a fact

13:04

troll

troll

troll

ik

13:04

i mean

idk

HMM

❓

[8:04 AM] Im 'corneum: then every truth is a insult i was replying t o that

13:05

@ᶰ°Konͧsti no u

no u

truth hurts most

jao is a fag feelsbadman

feelsbadman

2

rq

the truth is that botters keep botting

yes

6

5

why banned

in Konsti

konsti banned?

konsti is haters (edited)

#join-leave

what a random ban. but its ok for me ;P

why ban

jao got pissed because he called him a f**

that's konsti

ban because insulting is not OK

13:11

and I told him many times before

might as well ban his secondary account on here

as long as they don't talk

13:11

whatever

ban @Deleted User too

can you take talking permission instead?

ban half of this server, its friendly family server

it's about insulting others

13:12

you're welcome to use any words if you don't direct them at others

@heinrich5991 you also have to understand there may be friendly "insults" between friends

banters

the insulted may come to me and get the other person unbanned if you want

13:13

that should take care of that

Ha

feelsamazingman

thing is you can ban half of the server for such light insults (including learath

)

if a admin does it, its allowed

He isn't insulted so I could say this

13:15

Sorry for the bad language tho

botting is haram

13:16

i am true muslim

can insults go to people who arent on this server?

No

unless it's a public figure or something, no

13:17

and even then

no rabble-rousing then

?

volksverhetzung

yea, don't do things that are illegal?

redpilled

But to be serious I am more irritated by useless discussion by for example Lola then swearing from konsti.

you mean on the forum?

literaly anywhere lola posts

^

either this discord is 99% quiet or people insult/talk trash most of the time. what do u prefer

While it better be quite

I like the part where people don't insult. I also see that

what is there to discuss anywhere?

what do you get from a quiet server? (edited)

Useless discussion about changed physics, no map releases bad map releases and everything that is about complaining to moderators/admins

i dont think the trashtalk is bad.

I don't think insults is what gets people to come to discord ^^

Trashtalk is not bad, if it is used in #off-topic just like this. Nothing to do with development xd

ok lets try to keep everything insulting out for a week or so and see if it’s better

as long as there is no other discussion going on, i think trashtalk is okay on every channel

13:25

and its not like u choose where to start the chat. it just develops

well serious discussion won’t start if something else is going on

Image attachment

…

1

@Im 'corneum well like Learath2 should read everything here to see if something important was posted. And have to filter everything out :0

disturbing a serious discussion counts as insult @noby

no u

i can count some peoples existance as an insult to humanity.

if something is important, you should ping learath or report on github/forum

13:29

can’t expect anyone to go through all messages anyway (edited)

I actually do go through most everything on #developer

i would prefer if you would read intern channels instead

i can do it if you give me access

[quakenet] <Learath2> I read those aswell

@Im 'corneum good that nobody knows who my second account is feelsgoodman

feelsgoodman

(edited)

like

13:43

does it matter if a banned person can view the chat?

13:43

no – it's public

then why ban

you read and then ignore it

instead of giveng a muted role

there's a button for ban?

13:44

there is also a button for creating role

giving muted role takes as much clicks

yes, one level deeper

you don’t need to create it, it’s already there

it's easier for others to keep track of

13:45

#join-leave

I just don't enjoy interacting with you tbh

rude

you know what is ridiculous? ^^

u

13:46

troll

people complaining about people banning to quickly

13:46

and then

@ᶰ°Konͧsti it's not fun talking with someone who hates you

suggesting to ban for a lot weaker things

i suggest dont care about words

13:46

words cant hurt anyone

you think I hate you?

exactly my feelings

words can hurt people

no

k

words don't change anything, actions do

13:47

I can't possibly change anything about your life with anything I say

except ure lawyer

13:48

xd

@Learath2 really? you can't motivate someone to code more?

13:48

e.g.

13:48

or encourage people to do stuff?

It's ultimately your choice to do it, what I say is irrelevant

lol, i discouraged u changing physics but u didnt care

I don't think that's true

I can call you lazy and you can take that comment to heart and do something about it, or you don't and do nothing about it, which is the same state we were at before I said anything

u can encourage people to panic by yelling fire in a crowded space

troll

@heinrich5991 learath insults me on here pls ban him

lol

he calls me an ass

feelsbadman

3

on noby fng u wont get banned for no matter what u say unless ure tagging @noby in einem deutschen Satz

do not bend my words, I never called you an ass

***konsti has been muted for 10 seconds

feelsbadman

i cant remember what u called me but i remember seeing a donkey picture yesterday

i still dont ban for chat things

u banned ShootXen for keep tagging u one time troll

troll

lol rly

@snail will remember what @Learath2 calls me

deen called me an ass feelsamazingman

feelsamazingman

banhammer

2

feelsbadman

2

zzzz

2

if so it was probably for like 1min xd

@Learath2 would you accept any scientific evidence as to that words do change stuff or is it a belief like "I believe that humans have a free will in a way that will never be influenced by the outside and science can't get in the way of that"? (edited)

I can't possibly imagine an experiment where you can judge that

(note that I haven't searched for that kind of experiment)

13:55

so it's the latter

i think learath is unable to relate to others emotions/feelings

If I see such an experiment, sure I'm not going to argue against science

well

but you might not be able to construct one is my point

if it's something that cannot be determined by science

13:57

then it's unscientific (that's trying to be factual, this only seems to discredit it because we view "unscientific" = "bad") I think

13:57

science basically means "observing things"

13:57

and if there's no experiment that can conclude whether a theory is true or false, then it is basically useless in the realm of science

Just because I can't imagine an experiment doesn't mean there can't be an experiment. I can't imagine an experiment that proves chirality doesn't matter either but people much smarter then me came up with one.

but the thing is

13:58

even before searching for an experiment

13:58

you give yourself a good excuse to not accept it if it goes against your beliefs

what is my excuse? The experiment can very well be invalid

13:59

am I supposed to accept every claim that comes from a peer reviewed paper?

no

14:00

so. what do you quantifiably mean by "words don't hurt"

14:00

I think words can change actions and can go as far as make people dead that wouldn't be if it weren't for these words (edited)

I mean if a word hurts you it's because you want to get hurt by it, as my words can't possibly change anything in your life

you phrase it like an axiom

14:01

it sounds a bit like circular reasoning. a word can't hurt because a word can't hurt

14:02

my theory is: I think words can hurt, because I think words can change actions (we could experimentally check that) and e.g. make people dead who otherwise wouldn't be

14:02

so my claim has a verifiable statement in it (edited)

i can help experiment

@ZombieToad telling people to kill themselves is not OK and will not be tolerated

i didnt say that

14:04

ur lying

and don't go offtopic, we're having a discussion here

@heinrich5991 my point is words can at most change your state of mind but I also believe they can only change your mind if you allow them to

but making fun of it is okay @heinrich5991 ?

there

@Learath2 so they can change people's actions? and they will change some people's actions?

Who cares about dead people

14:07

they cant know

It's not the words fault though, It's the person who takes them too seriously. Sure I wouldn't say stupid things around someone that is in a vulnerable state, but that doesn't mean that the words themselves are inherently bad

14:07

at most, I could be a bad person

but if we can observe that words can change what people do

i think we should do a #philosophy channel (edited)

14:08

@jao

and therefore hurt them. which we can scientifically observe

14:08

without assigning blame to who's "at fault"

14:08

we can see that

it's not the words themselves hurting the person, it's the context and me as a person hurting them

Hating people for their skin color my right :O

@Learath2 there's not really a "cause" of gravitation

14:09

it's not the fault of the big body for having mass

14:09

or the fault of the small body of having mass

14:09

it's the whole system that creates gravitational force

@ᶰ°Konͧsti and dismissing your opinion because it's undiscussable is my right

let's view our situation neutrally, @Learath2

feelsbadman

14:10

Freedom of speech ded

link to relevant xkcd, @ᶰ°Konͧsti

you can do wathever u want while it doesnt affect another

@heinrich5991 you can't define the concept of "hurt" "bad" "good" but you can define gravity very well

I can define "hurt"

u can define hurt in a biological manner (edited)

hurt can be physically or emotionally, but you can scientifically observe both

also you can blame the fabric of spacetime for gravity if you really want to blame someone, but placing blame in that case does not change anything

yes

14:12

that's my point

14:12

we want to view the situation neutrally

14:12

without assigning blame

14:12

ok?

14:12

or I want to, right now

14:12

can we do that?

I mean sure but my perspective very much relies on that fact so I doubt I can argue for it without it

"fact"

14:13

no one is "at fault" in the universe

14:13

that's a people thing

So you think every word is inherently good/bad/hurtful?

no

14:14

that's a good exercise too, btw

neutral

understanding your "opponent"'s argument good enough that they'd agree with the statement after you paraphrase it

14:16

I think your statement is: words can't be good or bad, because you view the persons involved as having "free will" which means they can do whatever they want, without relying on any outside influence, because they're not bound by any words (edited)

that's it

now we try to get you to a point where you can paraphrase my point?

14:17

so, we try to view the situation neutrally

14:17

without assigning blame

You are technically arguing that people don't really have "free will"

no

14:18

that's not the start of my argument

14:18

we're observing the situation

14:18

so we get that people can change actions based on words

or that words are so powerful that they can influence your free will

and that people can get emotionally hurt by words

14:19

we can see that, without saying who's at fault for that

It's their choice to do so

14:20

It's very much my choice to take @ZombieToad's advice to heart or not

but I don't want to assign blame

14:22

I just want to observe what happens when words are spoken

14:22

and you're saying who the cause of the thing is

14:22

but that's not what I want to do. that's not really something I can define or experimentally find out

I had the choice of doing x or y before the words were spoken and I have the same choice after, the only thing it could have changed is which one I'm thinking to go for

14:24

yet you still have the "free will" to go for either

14:24

did anything actually change?

why are you unwilling to temporarily let go of assigning whose at blame? ^^

I didn't assign any blame

responsibility

14:25

whatever

no responsibility either

the person is the only thing responsible for their actions

I just told you the state before and after a function, and asked whether anything changed

is what you're saying

actually my argument is indefensible without pointing fingers, no point in arguing for it @heinrich5991

14:28

I agree that words can "hurt" you in a world where responsibility and blame doesn't matter (and quite possibly "free will" can't really exist)

so when one removes the people saying those hurtful words, one reduces hurt

@heinrich5991 is it fixed on ddnet, that a tee can spawn on the other side of a block if the spawn i in a corner?

and this is what I'm arguing for

14:29

@ᶰ°Konͧsti I don't know that bug

lol

14:29

Idk if it were every a thing on ddnet but it works on infclass for example

hm

but imho it's the opposite, when you give the people back their free will, actually it should decrease hurt

14:31

if someones brain is deterministic and you manipulate it's state with your words you have unarguably hurt them

14:34

blame, responsibility and free will are the only things that make this discussion interesting otherwise it's fact

but what is "free will"?

14:35

I mostly value things that I can observe in some way

14:35

things or explanations

you don't value your free will?

14:35

don't you think that "you"(whatever consciousness is) are the one making the decisions?

well, what does "making decisions" mean? ^^

14:36

I try to stay off arguments that have no foundation in things that one can observe

but you can't just discard things that make you human and then just add them back in as if they don't change anything

14:37

I completely 100% agree that without free-will, words can/ hurt people (edited)

14:37

stupid sed replacement thing

^^

14:38

yes. that's the different start points of us two, apparently

we all should stop existing

14:38

so we dont hurt anyone

14:38

nothing can happen

it's not nihilism day

best solution

14:38

xddd

that's tomorrow

yeah

14:38

we have to learn how to suicide first

@heinrich5991 I also do agree that If I say something and someone ends up actually hurt, it's most definitely my fault, no matter my intention

actually hurt = physically hurt?

physically or emotionally hurt

14:40

doesn't change the fact that i'm free to say whatever I want

14:41

it's just that I was irresponsible or had bad intentions if it results in any hurt

14:42

I think everyone should be allowed to say whatever they want and if the majority doesn't want to hear what they are saying that person will just end up being ignored

@deleted-role @Moderator what was with me?

going back to work, @heinrich5991 gimme a highlight if you want to keep going

@Learath2 I think we're pretty good now

14:47

seems like we understood each other's point

I guess that's enough

[ddnet/ddnet] New branch created: staging.tmp

gosh why is the show all mesages soooo long

15:09

what about 5 chars max

15:12

showall: ON and `showoll: OFFwould be ok too i guess but these huughe text is confusign af

[ddnet:master] 7 new commits

835f560 Add vote_ban rcon command - ChillerDragon 6b26751 Fixes style and shows ban message only in console - ChillerDragon c1952d3 'VoteBan' -> 'VoteMute' - ChillerDragon 32189f8 Pointer naming convention - ChillerDragon d6be41d Fix style and imporve performance - ChillerDragon d4b0ad4 Allow vote muted players to vote... - ChillerDragon 97ce07a Merge #1118 - bors[bot]

15:21

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #1118 Add vote_ban rcon command

developers hi!

lola sucks

danAmazing

2

u

no u

no u

No you

no u

No you

no u

wher do you guys see the showall message?

19:07

I tried it and it just shows up once, then not anymore

19:08

Also, hundreds of messages, not reading the rest

nothing interesting, just a philosophical debate

[ddnet/ddnet] New branch created: staging.tmp

The showall message also annys this one time

[quakenet] <deen> why?

19:17

[quakenet] <deen> just get it one time

[ddnet:master] 4 new commits

589749c Allows low mousesens - ChillerDragon 4fe6a23 Allow low mosesens in menu - ChillerDragon e31f53f Fix ui for low mousesens - ChillerDragon 00dd1be Merge #1120 - bors[bot]

19:25

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #1120 Allows low mousesens

Exported 419 message(s)