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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2018-04-16 00:00:00Z and 2018-04-17 00:00:00Z
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That should work fine @justabutterflier , but recently we have problems with DDNet 11 on old gpus
10:18
So your friend might want to try DDNet 10 as well
10:19
Basically any computer in the last 10-15 years should work fine
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:50:15Z
deen, i have issues with these updates sinse 11. I have now less fps than ever. like i had 200-300 fps with entities and now i have less than 100 fps. 4 core 1.6 ghz
10:51
(all core activated btw)
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@Cellegen | HU can you also not turn off VSync?
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:53:59Z
without vsync btw
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and you are 100% sure it's off?
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:54:15Z
all settings used for higher fps
10:54
y
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what config do you use?
10:54
can you post it
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:55:05Z
w8
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@snail @ᶰ°Konͧsti wants his map fixed. what are the things that have to be done?
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[quakenet] <deen> Cellegen: You might have the same issue: https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6409 No solution so far unfortunately
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:58:13Z
1360 x 768 (24 bit) No HUD No Vsync No FSAA No openGL 3.0 Fullscreen Low graphic Ingame: with entities: 100fps or less without entities: 200 - 400 fps Intel pentium CPU N4200 - 4 core 1.10 Ghz ._. wut it showed me 1.6 XD
10:58
shit then xd
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@deen int SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval(int interval) { if (!_this) { return SDL_UninitializedVideo(); } else if (SDL_GL_GetCurrentContext() == NULL) { return SDL_SetError("No OpenGL context has been made current"); } else if (_this->GL_SetSwapInterval) { return _this->GL_SetSwapInterval(_this, interval); } else { return SDL_SetError("Setting the swap interval is not supported"); } } this is the SDL code, if something else than _this->GL_SetSwapInterval(_this, interval); is called, then it's SDL magic
10:58
it can turbo boost
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:58:59Z
so sinse when OpenGL support came,
10:59
huh
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it has nothing todo wiht it xd
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 10:59:34Z
shit then when i could download the lasest version which has no OpenGL support? ;O
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well there were other changes made
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:00:02Z
cool
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opengl 3.3 is just a new version
11:00
why should it decrease performance if you let it disabled
11:00
the vsync bug in forum, ok.
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:00:39Z
who knows maybe i dont have opengl 3.0 support on my pc
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you even have
11:00
your CPU is new enough
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:00:58Z
ye
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if you download the latest driver from intel it should work
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:01:05Z
thats why i surprise
11:01
d
11:01
ok i could try
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well that doesn't solve your entity issue
11:01
are you sure you aren't on a map with lot of teleporters or speedups where it happens?
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:02:46Z
im sure, i tried on Silex maps, and my maps too
11:03
silex maps shouldn't be laggy :/
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can you test it on a map without speedups, ninja and turn off cl_entities_text (edited)
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:03:49Z
after i instal some driver stuff
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cl_refresh_rate to zero?
11:05
but normally entities should be faster except the overlay text
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:05:24Z
will try
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@heinrich5991 idk, if he has a fix that doesnt affect the gameplay we can do that
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@snail it does affect game play
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in what way
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in a way that apparently fixes a cheat. @ᶰ°Konͧsti care to specify more?
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:16:32Z
@Deleted User lol i downloaded an intel support assistent program cuz i have no idea what driver should work for it xD
11:18
looks like i have the latest version of my driver
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:19:14Z
@heinrich5991 @snail it doesnt affect the gameplay because you will have enough speed to cross the kills if u played legit but not if u want to cheat with a rocket
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@ᶰ°Konͧsti obviously it affects game play if some finishes are not possible anymore
11:20
or do we have a different definition of "gameplay"?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:20:32Z
lol why should some finishes not be possible anymore?
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plss dont change rocket again
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:20:36Z
xD
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there is a finish you wanted to remove after the fix. that finish wouldn't be possible anymore
11:21
as far as I understood it
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:21:21Z
lol what no
11:21
ask @snail when the map was released it was finishable in 10 seconds
11:21
and his french friends abused this cheat and waited for a legit 6 minute time
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yes. so the fix changed gameplay. but it was OK, because the map was so badly broken before
11:22
but this fix also changes gameplay if I understand it correctly
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:22:29Z
but the ranks made by this cheat werent fully deleted
11:22
no it does not :D
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ok
11:22
so I don't have to delete ranks after applying the fix?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:23:12Z
the rank from lola is done with the cheat i fixed now
11:23
so it need to be deleted
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yes. so that particular run from lola cannot be done anymore
11:23
→ it changes gameplay
11:23
do you have a different definition of gameplay?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:23:39Z
xd ye
11:23
ok yes it change the gameplay in this case
11:24
but since is a fullcut it should be fixed and the rank deleted
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OK
11:24
@snail read that? ^
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cheats != intended gameplay ww
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:26:09Z
@Deleted User welp on Kobra 4 basic map shows 220 fps - on my map Dynasty shows 240 fps - on another maps shows 260 fps with cl_refresh_rate 0
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then the grenade fix also doesn't change gameplay because it wasn't intended, @jao? ^^
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@Cellegen | HU and is that good or bad? XD
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different thing
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 11:27:07Z
kinda good but it doesnt reaches 300 fps somehow. but the lower versions did
11:27
i wanna test lower version if its possible.
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:30:22Z
will i get my fix now? feelsbadman
😭 1
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[1:24 PM] heinrich5991: snail read that? ^
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:33:26Z
hes offline and lol what should he say
11:33
my fix only affect that one rank1 nothing else xd
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he responded before
11:33
and I don't even know how to replace maps, I kinda need him
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 11:34:52Z
xD
11:35
deen amazing knowledge too danAmazing
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@ᶰ°Konͧsti what?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 12:05:09Z
@deen heinrich needs help to upload my fix of my map xd
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 12:05:27Z
deeeeeen any links for downloading lower versions of ddnet? ,;cc
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scp map ddnet.tw:servers/maps; ssh ddnet.tw servers/git-update-files-only.sh
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 12:06:00Z
thx
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@heinrich5991 well are we 100% sure adding a kill wont ruin some legit runs?
13:09
it kinda is a buggy "feature"
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what is?
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justabutterflier 2018-04-16 13:10:16Z
@Cellegen | HU are you done ur problem?
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Cellegen | HU 2018-04-16 13:10:34Z
ye,
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@heinrich5991 falling through the kill with speed
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oh. is the kill tile placed somewhere where regular runs also go through?
13:19
then you could be unlucky to hit it even if you're fast (if the movement isn't synchronized for all players)
13:19
@ᶰ°Konͧsti ^
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:22:59Z
lol
13:23
the kills are placed so that u wont hit them
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u talk about a specific map?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:23:58Z
@heinrich5991 if u play normal u wont go there
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yes
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:24:26Z
and u allways have the same speed at finish fall
13:24
its 100%
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( @Im 'corneum )
13:24
I guess I'll fetch the map_diff script from somewhere
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:25:01Z
ww
13:28
my fix is the best way to fix without any big change and its not affecting gameplay except for the cheated rank1
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but its using a glitch
13:31
which by definition might not be consistent
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:44:09Z
this glitch is a part of ddrace
13:44
shotgun/spec bug is also used in some maps
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but you don't get guaranteed death tile skip at certain speeds
13:47
(and even more, I don't like adding glitch use to maps)
13:47
can't this be fixed without glitches?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:47:59Z
lol what
13:48
ofc i can guarantee that
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because the players are perfectly synchronized at that point?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:48:31Z
i have made a map where u skip 400 death tiles on 600 tiles height
13:48
u allways have the same speed on the same position
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ah
13:48
could we still fix it without using glitches please?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:49:00Z
it wouldnt work with crossing the stopper otherwise also
13:49
its using a glitch already
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yes
13:49
I don't want to add more
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:49:28Z
every other solution breaks speedruns
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let's maybe not fix this in that case? "part of the map"?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:50:14Z
its a fullcut
13:50
and i want it fixed
13:50
i dont see the problem
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I don't want to add more glitch use to maps
13:50
that's my problem
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:50:51Z
there are a lot of maps which use glitches
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yes
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is that ddnet's opinion too?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:51:02Z
just see it as a feature not as a bug
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I don't know, it should be IMO
13:51
glitches are just bound to fail at some point
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:51:31Z
i have maps in my editor which are still in progress, they all use skipping kils instead uf using stoppers
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well we made a tourney that relies on glitches/bugs.. soooo
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:51:53Z
thats a cool way to make people play a lot of parts just to be able to cross it
13:53
I know nearly everything about physic glitches and i can promise you that they arent "buggy" it works 100%
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yes
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is this the thread where konsti is trying to cheat
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but it's bound to break eventually if someone touches some part of the code
13:53
@noby no
13:53
or even just compiles with different compiler options
13:54
or even just compiles with a different compiler version (edited)
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:54:20Z
@heinrich5991 u cant touch the code in this case because this bug was abused hundreds of time, so it would break dozens of maps
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yes. but I don't want to add more maps to the problem
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:54:49Z
lmfao
13:54
this isnt a problem
13:54
its a feature
13:55
mappers can do really cool shit with it
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yes, it is – what happens if you can't compile ddnet to work with your maps anymore?
13:55
because in the future they apply different floating point optimizations
13:55
?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:55:26Z
maybe you should play brainduck, it uses dozens of glitches and physic bugs
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they = compiler vendors
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:55:59Z
you cant change floating point shit, it would change your movement
13:56
in swings for example
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compiler vendors are the problem, not me
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:56:45Z
lol you would have to fix this then to make physics work like before anyways
13:56
so my map isnt the problem
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yes, it's part of the problem. I won't add more glitches to existing maps, sorry
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:57:25Z
maybe that decision shouldnt be related to you
13:57
and more to testers
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yea, maybe
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what about glitches in new maps
13:57
not allowed?
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I'd suggest them to not release maps relying on glitches either
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:58:23Z
ok delete brainduck, justice 1+2, delirious and all topranks of maps
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they are a problem. I haven't said that I will delete problems, I said I won't add new problems
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:58:56Z
and lol a lot of olschoolmaps too xD
13:59
u dont add new problems
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yes, I do
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:59:12Z
no?XD
13:59
u cant "fix" the maps anyways
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more maps to be fixed/special-cased/whatever in case anyone wnats to fix that bug at some point
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 13:59:27Z
u need to keep the code like it is
13:59
LMFAO u cant fix all the maps
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because there are too many? see, that's why I don't want to make the problem bigger
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:00:06Z
omg
14:00
u dont make it bigger
14:00
because its a no go to change the physics
14:00
u cant say what maps are related to glitches
14:00
a lot of maps are
14:00
nobody knows how much
14:00
so u cant change the physcis
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in case anyone ever wants to touch that piece of code, we now can generate a nice idea of which maps rely on what and which don't
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:01:18Z
even 1000 new maps with glitches dont make the problem bigger
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we now have all the movements of all players
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:01:24Z
no u cant
14:01
lmao u dont
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so we can check whether they use a bug
14:01
yes, we do?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:01:42Z
u have movements of the last half year
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yes
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:01:53Z
ddnet exists 4 years omg
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yes
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:02:15Z
and i could say u 50 maps without thinking
14:02
but there are hundreds
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see, and we could check which have it by replaying the runs
14:02
anyway
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:02:44Z
lol no
14:03
how would u replay a four years old run without having its movement?XD
14:03
and lol
14:04
every player would tar and feather you for again touching the physics
14:06
did u see how many problems uve got with only fixing the grenade bug? And this is hopefully not related to hundred of maps. But what we are talking about now is
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because 100 of maps rely on going through kill tiles
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:10:53Z
i dont talk about the killtile thing now
14:10
he was talking about floating points
14:11
and that would affect every map
14:11
because it changes your movement
14:11
how you swing for example
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so suppose someone wants to fix the kill tile bug at some point
14:11
your map would be an additional problem
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[freenode] <nemo> are you guys imposing a speed limit to catch glitching?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:12:20Z
you cant fix the killtile bug anywyys
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no, the problem is that we inherited ugly code that doesn't check for collision with custom tiles correctly (edited)
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:12:27Z
when will u understand that
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[freenode] <nemo> oh. ow
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and this means you can skip through some custom tiles at certain speeds
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[freenode] <nemo> mm
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because there's not a single tick when you actually touch the tile
14:13
collision tiles are not affected by this because they use different, and correct, code
14:13
otherwise this would be a real disaster
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nemo: and fixing bugs like this is pretty hard because people are bound to have created maps that rely on certain bugs
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:14:50Z
its not pretty hard
14:14
its nonsense
14:15
or better call it bullshit
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:24:14Z
@heinrich5991 HELP BIG BUG PLS FIX
14:24
it wont affect gameplay!
14:24
we can fix all maps!
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[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: make a new versino of the tile that is not buggy
14:24
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: deprecate the old one?
14:24
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: replace all official map tiles w/ new version?
14:25
[freenode] <nemo> then laugh when people try to exploit the new tiles.
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[freenode] <nemo> the reason I perked up glitching tho, was that it used to be that using a portal gun loop + invulnerability or just flying really really high in saucer you could go fast enough to punch through part of our game map
14:29
[freenode] <nemo> it was kinda funny
14:30
[freenode] <nemo> I ended up imposing a "terminal velocity" of 2 pixels per millisecond.
14:30
[freenode] <nemo> let's call it "air resistance" instead of "Hedgewars fails at collision checks" 😉
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^^
14:30
we have 6000 units per game tick
14:30
game tick is 1/50s
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[freenode] <nemo> we have a long standing bug of reducing our tick granularity some, it's a waste for most gears
14:30
[freenode] <nemo> the only one that currently has anything like that is rope
14:31
[freenode] <nemo> and we pissed off a ton of people changing that at first
14:31
[freenode] <nemo> even there our granularity is ridiculously high... 1/125
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well, the "rope" is a main gameplay element in teeworlds. and then it's not round-based ^^
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[freenode] <nemo> sure.
14:31
[freenode] <nemo> rope people are super sensitive to changes in rope feel
14:31
[freenode] <nemo> took a while for them to forgive us, and some minor tweaking
14:32
[freenode] <nemo> but yeah. ddnet pretty much requires rope
14:32
[freenode] <nemo> for everything
14:32
deen ^^
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[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: BTW. I think I challenged you to this one long ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxE7ZNJEfFc - I ran into this video the other day. someone who actually finished it.
14:33
[freenode] <nemo> I've yet to manage that
14:33
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: if I even manage to get to the challenge jumps, I usually drown due to the water rise failing the jump over and over
14:34
[freenode] <nemo> but being total fail at roping has not discouraged me from screwing w/ it 😃
14:34
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: and... the main reason our granularity is so insanely high is not the round based thing, it is the pixel based thing
14:35
[freenode] <nemo> that and meh homebrew physics 😝
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the video looks like the prediction is off
14:37
like the hook doesn't look like it would hit and then it suddenly attaches
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:44:41Z
Lol i wanted to download hedgewars
14:44
But arch Linux sucks feelsbadman
14:45
Im lazy
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[freenode] <nemo> hm
14:45
[freenode] <nemo> we have a couple of arch people hanging out in the channel
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:45:20Z
I'm gonna pacman it
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[freenode] <nemo> not aware of any (current) problems with the package
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:45:36Z
K got it
14:45
xd
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[freenode] <nemo> last screwup that resulted in like a dozen emails from arch users was arch bumping physfs and not bumping hedgewars - and relying on physfs promise of ABI compatibility (hah)
14:46
[freenode] <nemo> eventually found a struct with a field change 😝
14:46
[freenode] <nemo> frustrating part was arguing w/ arch about "plz just rebuild the Hedgewars package thx"
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got a link to mailing list?
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[freenode] <nemo> mailing list?
14:47
[freenode] <nemo> oh. the emails
14:47
[freenode] <nemo> heh. we have this feedback page inside the app
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the thread about rebuilding in arch I ment
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[freenode] <nemo> ahhh
14:47
[freenode] <nemo> lemme see!
14:47
[freenode] <nemo> it was on IRC but also in bug report
14:48
[freenode] <nemo> might be some stuff in the bug report
14:48
[freenode] <nemo> and I know I emailed the arch users the bug
14:48
[freenode] <nemo> we never have had this kind of prob w/ debian/ubuntu/gentoo 😝
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well, they simply don't update the libraries 😉
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[freenode] <nemo> well. it helps that debian I think has more rigorous testing and also, well, their dev idles on our channel
14:49
[freenode] <nemo> s/dev/maintainer/
14:50
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: https://issues.hedgewars.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511
14:51
[freenode] <nemo> heinrich5991: in the end it was fixed just 'cause we did a new release
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[freenode] <nemo> was basically broken for 2 months
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Tuesday, 17 October 2017, 20:13 GMT So, obviously, what I propose is to re-build hedgewars. Maybe other physfs-dependent packages, too (this I don't know).
14:52
Comment by Matthias Blaicher (mabl) - Thursday, 07 December 2017, 14:55 GMT Since this bug is fixed by a rebuild and there has been a new version of hedgewars since mid-november, I'd propose to just update the package and everything will be fine 😃
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[freenode] <nemo> us constantly telling users "downgrade physfs or rebuild hedgewars"
14:52
[freenode] <nemo> (or do your own build)
14:52
[freenode] <nemo> ah well whatever
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and arch linux maintainers being stubborn :/
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[freenode] <nemo> hehe
14:52
[freenode] <nemo> we were joking about adding an autoreply script
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^^
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 14:59:05Z
lol this hedgewars game sucks
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[freenode] <nemo> sniff
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 15:22:28Z
it requires accounts and accounts are bad
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[freenode] <nemo> doesn't require accounts
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[freenode] <nemo> account is only if you want your stats on server, want to reserve a username, or want to rejoin a game on disconnect
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 15:37:23Z
or join a server which only allows registered users aka all
15:37
anyways even the option of having accounts is bad
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[freenode] <nemo> hm?
15:41
[freenode] <nemo> hardly anyone requires registration
15:41
[freenode] <nemo> but some people do enable that if they are being harassed
15:42
[freenode] <nemo> also you might have a confusion here between "server" and "room"
15:42
[freenode] <nemo> at the server level there's basically 0 servers besides the official one that support registration
15:45
[freenode] <nemo> anyway. gonna bet most people disagree w/ you on the fundamental point - esp the ones who chat routinely on the server
15:45
[freenode] <nemo> kinda like on freenode, people like to know who they are talking to
15:45
[freenode] <nemo> that's basically the main reason for it. that and spam/abuse
15:45
[freenode] <nemo> the forums are never going to support unregistered 'cause we would not be able to handle the moderation load
15:45
[freenode] <nemo> feel free to start an anonymous message board of your own and announce it on the site if you want that
15:51
[freenode] <nemo> the one I do regret ever allowing was the repeated request for password protected rooms
15:51
[freenode] <nemo> I'd swear people turn that on just for the hell of it now then wonder why no one joins
15:51
[freenode] <nemo> think it was really poisonous to server activity
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[freenode] <nemo> bridging I guess
16:17
[freenode] <nemo> I'm on freenode personally
16:17
[freenode] <nemo> at least - I'm guessing that's what you're talking about
17:40
@heinrich5991 u do masterserver bans?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2018-04-16 19:10:37Z
Teeworlds>hedgewars
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@Ryozuki I can do these
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look at the image ^^
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@Ryozuki may I share that image furtherly? does it disappear?
20:05
i dont think it disappears
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@Ryozuki I forwarded it to teecloud.de, since they seem to be hosting these kinds of servers
20:17
@Ryozuki if they don't answer in a couple of days, I'll ban the IPs
Exported 353 message(s)