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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2017-09-20 00:00:00Z and 2017-09-21 00:00:00Z
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making it not being sent repeatedly would influence the gameplay
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<deen> eeeee: about fng2: some guy came on discord #general and told us that people don't play on ddnet fng server anymore because we are missing the new features from fng2. So that's why I switched to it. Personally I don't know anything about fng
07:28
<deen> about lua: some bot client mod of ddnet has lua, haven't checked how far they developed it
07:30
<deen> about betting for/against wayland: http://longbets.org/
07:32
<deen> about systemd: works much better for me than the previous stuff. and finally I have the same init system on all linux distros, so just need to learn one. It has some problems, but I don't understand how people get so angry about a peace of software.
07:32
<deen> piece*
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"<eeeee> fstd's openfng is also perfectly fine and open, no idea why we need fng2" since I play fng mainly, I can confirm that most people prefer fng2 over openfng. FNG2 has no bugs atleast I couldn't discover any yet and it would be a pain to play fng without the so called "smooth mode" from fng2 (edited)
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am i the some guy? :D are there problems with the update?
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ChillerDragon 2017-09-20 09:32:23Z
yes open pull requests hehe
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i dont mean the version of fng2 running on my server, they used the standard one
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... going on for hours ... Sep 20 13:17:10 server matterbridge[32630]: 2017/09/20 13:17:10 Error, disconnected: Disconnect Called Sep 20 13:17:10 server matterbridge[32630]: 2017/09/20 13:17:10 Con...
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<EastByte> :D
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teehistorian records all inputs from the players as well as the player positions in each tick. It stores this info in a highly compressible output format (I've achived 5x compression using xz or bz2).
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<heinrich5991> deen: it's not a race map, is it?
12:56
<heinrich5991> we could probably keep random teleporters in case an sv_random_teleports is enabled, which depends on sv_test_cmds?
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Don't spawn all players to the same tele that can be very annoying
13:00
There are reasons why maps have multiple TO teles and not only one
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imo 3 is best
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@jao there's a tradeoff 😃 in the best case, we can do client prediction after this change, which means less laggy teleporters
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depends if you how you looking on subject, if you want fair races
13:02
or just random
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How does unlaggy teleporters help me when my game experience is ruined
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that's the wrong way to approach the issue 😃 think about solutions that enable both!
13:03
(also, I dislike how : ) is replaced by an emoticon that looks like : D)
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I don't even know what laggy teleporters means 😄
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try playing with cl_predict 0
13:06
then you see that collision with walls etc. is predicted within the client, that means that the client knows what the server will do without getting data back
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3, 3, 3 ! 😄
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<EastByte> teleporters will just feel more instantaneous
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or maybe you remember how hookthrough feels when ddnet didn't predict it – the hook was aborted early and you only got the actual hook a bit later
13:12
If you'd implement the sv_random command people would probably always activate it if it's not a solo or team map 😄
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hah, thought of that. I said I'd only enable it if sv_test_cmds is on, which means you can't do records while this is enabled
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like onf FUN server
13:13
imo, randomnes on race issss
13:13
baaad idea
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But I'm sure other maps have random teleporters implemented as gameplay
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I'd consider it a good idea to discourage that
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Either as a punishment or actual part
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punishment?
13:14
like what
13:14
you jump into tp, and your punishment is to die
13:15
because randomens wanted it?
13:15
xd
13:16
if some maps depends on randomness, then it should be moved to Fun. There is not place for randomness, if there is ranking system
13:16
because its not fair
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or should be fixed
13:16
Sure it's fair
13:16
For everyone same randomness applies
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its not same
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but you can get lucky or not
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its like, jump nto tp
13:16
and it's teleport you to random place
13:16
it's fair?
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which means getting a good rank will become an act of grinding randomness
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Part of the game
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you have to play one ma thousand times
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and grinding isn't fun
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to get perfect run
13:17
it's stupid
13:17
one map
13:17
*
13:17
it's part of bad behaviour
13:17
which has to be fixed
13:17
why you want to stay with bug lol 😄
13:17
i know, you will call it "feature"
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Do you want to reinvent everything lol
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I think teerace also removed random teleports
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Those are old maps mostly
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reinvent?
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we don't want to talk about talking about randomness
13:18
but about randomness
13:18
you're going a level higher right now ^^
13:19
sorry !:<
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I mean an interesting question is whether we can agree on the proposition:
13:20
"randomness in competitive races is bad"
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yes !
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and maybe
13:20
"missing load balancing in race parts is bad"
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Yes ofc, but when it already exist you can't go ahead and just remove it while people had to deal with it for years
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ok, so "changing the rules of races is bad"
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but, at the point the "old rules" can be adjusted
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anything else we need to cover?
13:21
"client prediction is a good thing"
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for example, if it won't be possible to beat some time beacuse of predicting teleports
13:22
we can fix maps
13:22
If some map can't be finished because randomness was a big part of a map, then i don't know. it's hard topic
13:23
Because in my opinion, such map shouldn;t be called "competitive map"
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Not all maps are competitive tho
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then they should has 0 points
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ah, this might be a hypothesis we can disagree on
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i guess ?
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ddnet ranks are for competitiveness vs not all ddnet ranks should be viewed as competitive
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and without times, or something
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Points are for finish not for good times
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Btw, have in your mind any maps which are not called "compatitive" ? (edited)
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Adrenaline 4
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Why ?
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Because you can't really focus on being fast if you want to finish
13:30
Hard long faily map
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I think, we don't understand each other
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hm. I still think that people want to have a better time than others in there
13:31
people who are more advanced can probably go faster, even if they might not perceive it as fast themselves
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competitive means for me, maps which works the same for every team/player (edited)
13:32
only depends on your skill
13:32
without magic force
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Yes I mean something else 😒
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magic force == randomness for example :PPP
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I'm leaving you guys for now, don't kill each other 😃
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And that's why I think, that 3 options is best. In teams
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bye
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you have your own gamestate (as heinrich said before). So every run would be the same
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we should warn if a user is mapping and he only places 1 spawn
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Why would you need to place multiple spawns when starting mapping
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and why not
13:36
u can easy place 3 spawns together
13:36
nonsense
13:36
and still, its only a warn
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Most maps don't even need multiple spawns if u spawn in solo or it's a solo map
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easy, detect if it has the solo option
13:38
we can add the warn still
13:38
we could even make it only complain if the only spawn is not in air
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And why do you have a solo option before placing spawn? xD
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and why not?
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cltr + shift + e
13:38
new map
13:39
select
13:39
DDRace, Solo
13:39
Xd
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Dafuq I think you aren't familiar with how mapping works 😄
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nice joke
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So you change your idea
13:39
while mapping?
13:39
Like, oh i will do solo
13:39
OH no, best part for DDrace
13:40
nvm, i changed my mind, i will rebuild whole map
13:40
?
13:41
What's the consequence of adding warn about amount of teleports?/
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This solo option goes with a command, and that you don't even have to set in your map, but is enforced by server. So why would you type in that command before placing the first spawn?
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and why not?
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for me i could be just switch option
13:42
ddrace<->solo
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and make indicators
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Because you don't need it
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enabled by default
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like, for spawn
13:42
and warns for mapper
13:42
like "oh i forgot to add more spawns" (edited)
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and if u are a pro mapper like jao, disable it
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All you do is making editor more complicated with no advantages
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complicated !?!
13:43
what's complicated in choosing map type
13:43
you doing it anyway
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oh, wait im warning you about a possible thing wich for sure will be said on testing section but this only complicated things!
13:44
It has advantages, if map editor would suggest you
13:44
what you could do
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You want to throw useless warnings at a beginner because he only place one spawn and force him to select on a map type? He will run away men
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based on ddnet rules
13:45
it would work great.
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useless for a begginner? must be a joke
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Beginners on ddnet ?
13:45
in map editor
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you literally assume a begginner mapping which doesnt even know to setup a server will know about the 1 spawn block bug
13:46
always expect the end user to be... not so smart
13:46
if making it with caps make it feel more important (?) (edited)
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I the main rule, that's why youi have tons of "if" statements, and other constraints
13:46
to make sure, that the user do right things
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Useless as in the beginner doesn't have to care about 1 spawn while trying to learn plain mapping
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But look, if you create new map, there could be a switch option
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(this time i added a dot :)
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with ddrace, race
13:47
but "normal" option by default
13:47
which means, vanilla maps
13:47
just like that.
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More complicated, as I said 😃
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cause he says it
13:48
i think it would be a great idea @Savander
13:48
choosing betwen solo and ddrace map
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much more easier and less complicated
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when creating it
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than writing commands
13:48
into map config
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you could even put some little tips there
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You don't need any commands for server types on ddnet in your map
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tips are essential in most IDE's
13:48
like, oh guy
13:49
you can press ctrl + p to switch to the file! Look how cool is that (edited)
13:49
and it's simply notifications, informations
13:49
even if you write code, it can show you that
13:49
you missed for example semicolon
13:50
it could be the same for maps. You missed spawns ! hello !
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I agree this warning would be good when it gets thrown after finishing the map, but when starting or in mapping process - hell no, please not
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<Learath2> heinrich5991: eeh this bot really needs colors
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can have an unobtrusive warning on the top right corner that can be dismissed for spawn count, and if we decide to go with one TO tile also for that
15:59
these are all stuff we can fix, we just need to decide whether removing randomness is k or not
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is not k!
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weren't you for removing randomness before i left
16:01
@jao what did you do to the guy?
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i mean
16:01
nevermind
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he is for removing randomness 😄
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I read it wrong
16:01
;-;
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Its k!
16:01
Xd
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<Nimda> Guhimbarwa by maggi323 just released on Moderate at 2017-09-20 18:00
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<heinrich5991> Learath2: it's open source, make a pull request I guess
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: O O O
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ooo?
17:59
.ooo
18:00
cool gTLD
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<eeeee> is there a .gtld gtld yet?
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I don't think so
18:01
but google bought .dev
18:01
😦
18:01
and now, my localhost domains fucked up in google chrome
18:01
because it's auto redirected to https
18:01
:/
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use .test
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im using now
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<eeeee> makes sense, if i was google i'd also buy localhost and redirect it to google
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.test is reserved
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.example as well
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localhost is in process of being reserved
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.localhost
18:02
and .invalid
18:02
4 reserved domains
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.invalid is probably not a good idea ^^
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but it's reserved if I remember
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yes, for never being used
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The name invalid is reserved by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in RFC 2606 (June 1999) as a domain name that may not be installed as a top-level domain in the Domain Name System (DNS) of the Internet.
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programs are probably allowed to assume that .invalid doesn't resovle
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The name localhost is reserved by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in RFC 2606 (June 1999) as a domain name label that may not be installed as a top-level domain in the Domain Name System (DNS) of the Internet.
18:03
since 1999 ?
18:04
don't know if i can trust Wikipedia
18:04
;D
18:04
but i can trust RFC i guess
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okay, I confused it with just localhost 😃
18:05
localhost is/was recently in progress to be always pointing to the local host 😃
18:05
I read that, .localhost
18:05
will automatically be bound
18:05
to 127.0.0.1
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::1 is the future
18:05
😃
18:05
right.. 😄
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$ ping google.com PING google.com(fra16s24-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4001:824::200e)) 56 data bytes 64 bytes from fra16s24-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4001:824::200e): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=19.2 ms 64 bytes from fra16s24-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4001:824::200e): icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=18.9 ms [...]
18:06
$ ping localhost PING localhost(localhost.localdomain (::1)) 56 data bytes 64 bytes from localhost.localdomain (::1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.052 ms 64 bytes from localhost.localdomain (::1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.095 ms
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when that future will come?
18:06
never used ipv6
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that is from my local computer
18:06
I never changed anything wrt. IPv6
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<eeeee> wait until google grabs .localdomain, those two would look the same :P
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so the future is now ^^
18:07
...
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I heard few years ago something like
18:07
"soon ipv6" !! prepare"
18:08
then now is 2017, and still ipv4 is used on top
18:08
:/
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ipv6 usage is growing ^^
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root@AdamJaworski:/mnt/c/Users/savan# ping6 ::1 PING ::1(::1) 56 data bytes 64 bytes from ::1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=128 time=0.154 ms 64 bytes from ::1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=128 time=0.156 ms
18:09
ehm, my local ping is almost twice highter
18:09
:<
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not working for me
18:11
weird ?
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then you don't have ipv6 apparently
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ddnet has ?
18:12
ipv6.ddnet.tw
18:12
😄
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no, don't think so
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Btw, don't take my "emoticons" too serious, i have stupid habit
18:13
hard to change
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I just want a proper : )
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Yeah, now 😃 looks like laughing at you :/
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I would like a simple smile better
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We had to make issue (edited)
18:15
wat
18:15
that's the normal smiley face from unicode
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awwww, sweeeet
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best smile !
18:17
I vote for a new standard
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did you see? there's a emoticon in the URL ^^
18:18
but discord doesn't render it
18:18
☺
18:18
it's possible
18:18
cool. I saw once
18:18
a conference about
18:18
css grid
18:19
So the presenter used emoticons, as a grid
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first world problems
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bananas, heads etc
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<Learath2> http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201103#28 very nice read about ipv6 and history of networks
18:24
this is what you need @heinrich5991 🙂
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hao?
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:slight_smile:
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what does doozy mean?
18:27
hmmm. it even has a unicode codepoint
18:28
Get the complete details on Unicode character U+1F642 on FileFormat.Info
18:30
you could also turn this off I guess
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that sounds good
18:33
although.. then I'm probably the old grumpy guy who doesn't even know emojis
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<eeeee> doesn't know emojis? 😤😒 👉🚪
wut 1
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<fstd_> cool rectangles bros
19:50
<Learath2> yeah looks like rectangles for me aswell
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the monospace font I have in my terminal does not have emojis
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553c97b Fix crash with broken ddnet-info.json - def-
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<ddnet-commits> [ddnet] def- pushed  new commit to master: https://git.io/v5hpG
20:26
<ddnet-commits> ddnet/master c97b def: Fix crash with broken ddnet-info.json
20:31
it's possible to filter out
20:31
ddnet-commits? 😄
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should be
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what are those  meant to be?
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they try to hack your computer
feelsbadman 1
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guess its displaying smth on irc
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should be fixed
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mfw discord can do emojis but craps out on unicode
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it's not unicode, it's some weird IRC escape sequence
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or color codes (edited)
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<Henningstone> ouch
Exported 350 message(s)