DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2017-09-19 00:00:00Z and 2017-09-20 00:00:00Z

<eeeee> the previous bridge had colors while new one doesn't seem to

00:09

<eeeee> not that i care, but in the spirit of teeworlds i feel obliged to complain about change

00:10

<heinrich5991> in the spirit of teeworlds, I think even pointing you to a bug tracker would be too much support

00:10

<heinrich5991> but anyway: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/issues

42wim/matterbridge

matterbridge - bridge between mattermost, IRC, gitter, xmpp, slack, discord, telegram, rocket.chat,hipchat (via xmpp), steam and matrix with REST API

00:11

<eeeee> uh if i had to continue the spirit of teeworlds i'd now have to rage and threaten to ddos your bridge.. but enough of that i guess

:V

00:17

why ppl with veyr hight time, are last on scoreboard ?

cause people with no time have internal score of -9999

00:17

don't ask

00:17

what

00:17

00:17

okay

join with a vanilla client and see

i know that -9999 value

00:18

but, time shouldn't be positive?

00:18

:v

no, so -4 ranks better than -400

hm

00:22

then

00:22

tset people to incredible big numbers?!

00:22

00:22

nvm

what is the /pause [name]

13:25

?

13:25

you can pause someone else? or your dummy?

<deen> yes, try pausing everyone else

13:28

<deen> and see what happens :D

<Ryozuki> ahh i see

<heinrich5991> that was legitemately my fear when I saw the commit

Any way to stop the client crashing when you save a map with ~3,500 envelopes + 53,000 env points?

how did you even create that map?

unity

unity?

Unity3d

15:50

with my animation tool

you have a converter?

how did you even export that to tw maps?

it runs fine in tw, and i can open it in the editor, it just won't re-save if i need to make edits

which answers neither of our questions

run it in a debugger and see why it crashes

15:52

probably some hard-coded number of envpoints/envelopers

15:52

*envelopes

he mad Unity editor

16:03

some time ago

16:04

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3801

<Learath2> heh brilliant stuff

interesting. would have thought that Learath2 would complain about "bloated maps"

<Learath2> i would if i wasn't in awe

16:10

<deen> @Dr. Jekyll yeah, that's some crazy stuff

16:10

<deen> you need to compile debug client, run it in gdb or some other debugger

16:10

<deen> and then you can see where it crashes

16:10

<deen> or send me the map

yeah looks like too many items

16:24

dbg_assert(m_NumItems < 1024, "too many items");

maybe try tu optimize unity editor

not possible

16:27

i actually have 3500 different quads doing different things

o.O

I wonder whether we have an actual reason for that limit

because sane people dont need more than 1024

which is not an actual reason

because a fixed limit is easier than a non-fixed one in C

need to initialise the arrays with SOME size

not if you have proper support for variable-sized stuff, like std::vector or array

<Learath2> might give that a look when I have time

17:05

<Learath2> don't we have growing arrays implemented in base/tl ?

array

17:05

see above

ok not init arrays, my error is from the mem alloc of m_pItems

17:08

which is an array, so nvm

<Ryozuki> it's sad, i have a amd r9 390, on debian 9 i can't install the newest propietary drivers 'cause it doesn't support XServer 1.19 but only 6.9 to 1.10 (which i think it's old?) and my only way was using 'apt install firmware-linux' (non-propietary i think)

17:56

<Ryozuki> it's horrible to play tw like this

17:56

<Ryozuki> i wanted to forget entirely about windows D:

17:57

<Ryozuki> (idk if it also affects, but i have a 144hz screen)

17:58

<Ryozuki> (it's horrible to play tw like this, cause the screen flickers in full screen games, also on borderless)

18:00

<Ryozuki> hmm wrong, tw only flickers fullscreen, borderless it doesn't, but it is limited at 60hz for some reason

<eeeee> why do you XServer though, i thought wayland is now the de-facto standard in this year of linux desktop.

18:29

<eeeee> Learath2: can you remind me why we prefer base/tl over stl?

18:30

<heinrich5991> not sure. IMO we could probably throw it out

agreed

<heinrich5991> vectors support foreach loops :) for(auto &x : vec) {}

but we do not have C++11 :c

<heinrich5991> ah right, nvm

18:32

<eeeee> nah let's do both at the same time

18:32

<eeeee> delet base/tl and move to c++11 :)

but surely we could enable it and while at it there is also thread support then

<eeeee> what do you mean by thread support?

18:33

<heinrich5991> atomics I think

18:33

<heinrich5991> we currently do it with volatile variables IIRC

18:34

<eeeee> ah, ok. i thought you wanted to replace tasks with coroutines or something

c++11 provides standardized way to handle threads and all stuff belonging there (atomic, mutex, condition_variable), so need for all the hassle with different platforms

<eeeee> not dealing with macos's iMutex sounds great too

we can't use c++11 cause ger server?

<heinrich5991> I think that was resolved some time ago

then what is stoping us?

yes, we can use c++11

<heinrich5991> still, activating c++11 should be done with careful thought :)

actually ger runs debian 9

<Ryozuki> i guess it's lot of work

c++11 is backward compatible ?

<heinrich5991> yes

18:40

<heinrich5991> (kinda)

then it's not proble to use features from c++1

<heinrich5991> but code using c++11 features isn't backwards compatible to c++98

and stay with some thing, without hurry

<Ryozuki> ^

but

18:41

yea i understand

<Ryozuki> imho updating to c++11 is a positive thing

just stay with c++11

18:41

but, without hurry

18:41

to refactor code

18:41

<Learath2> Ryozuki: well i wouldnt use debian for my desktop

19:00

<Learath2> i prefer it to be a little more up to date then 20 years ago

19:01

<heinrich5991> debian currently has 0.5 year old software

19:01

<heinrich5991> :)

19:02

<Learath2> still too old for my taste in an age where we get display driver updates every 10 seconds

19:02

<heinrich5991> your distro of choice?

Learath2 OS

19:02

i bet

<Learath2> gentoo if i have the time/arch if i don't

written on punch cards

19:03

;D

<heinrich5991> I think arch has newer software, generally :)

19:03

<Learath2> i like gentoo where i can disable most of the garbage

is there linux which osx or windows look?

19:04

which has *

<heinrich5991> linux is different, you'll have to adapt even if the UI looks the same

i know

<heinrich5991> gnome has some nice-looking UI, KDE is probably the closest to windows

i used linux, but just talking about UI

<Learath2> compiling is much better with MuQSS and BFQ, doesn't bother me anymore

https://lifehacker.com/5665765/macbuntu-makes-your-linux-desktop-look-like-mac-os-x

Macbuntu Makes Your Linux Desktop Look Like Mac OS X

We've shown you how to bring the OS X GUI to Windows, but if you're more of a Linux fan, Macbuntu will add an OS X theme to your Ubuntu desktop instead.

19:05

;D

<heinrich5991> do you want the exact same GUI?

Not like i want, just curious

19:06

now i have Linux + win

<heinrich5991> do you talk about having the exact same GUI?

yeah, such like. Or at least pretty similar

I saw a WinXP theme for gnome or KDE a while back

kali linux has windows theme IIRC

windwsxp is like 17 years old

windows 7 is the only windows I use nowadays

<heinrich5991> soon it will be win10 :)

8 was a disappointment and 10 is bloatware

<heinrich5991> and yet one day, win10 will be the only thing remaining

In my opinion, win 10 works smoother and better than win 7

nah i'll stick to windows7 until wine runs everything

talking as a long term user

wine will never run everything

19:13

windows is actively developed by more people than wine

it'll some day run everything that I care about

windwos has team which developing windows-linux

not much remains on that list, which is why i barely boot windows anymore

soon eveything will be windows

19:14

windows needs some faster file system access to run linux programs

@Savander i'd bet more on windows finally ditching their ancient kernel

windows kernel is probably fine

at the moment

19:15

linux using ext, when windows nfs

19:15

ntfs

19:15

in the same time

@heinrich5991 cheaper to use a custom version of linux kernel then to maintain an ancient potato

linux also has btrfs, xfs and others, zfs via modules

http://www.wasz.ovh/img/mGi3EsbJ86407

Screenshot_mGi3EsbJ86407

1 view(s)

windows kernel also desperately needs a better interface for fs, can't possibru add a new file system, even with drivers

@Learath2 what gives you the idea that the windows kernel is outdated? ^^

19:17

there's a fork of fuse that allows you to do the same thing for windows

19:17

can't be that bad

big companies don't do rewrites unless they have to

speculations

linux kernel doesn't do rewrite either

i bet they've been bolting stuff onto NT for the last billion years

linux kernel is worse in that respect AFAIK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4auWwMsEnY

Code Refactoring: Learn Code Smells And Level Up Your Game!

19:18

if someone is interested

but the linux code is being looked at by thousands of people, god knows what bugs NT hides

in conferences

<eeeee> on the positive side you can probably still run some windows 95 programs in windows 10

actually we've seen some of them in the recent NSA leak

windows is much bigger target as well

eeeee: kernel-wise linux is fine wrt. backward-compatibility

well one plus is that the kernel debugger is so shit it'd take major effort to find a windows kern vuln

<eeeee> yeah it's a benefit of the OS, not the kernel

yup

19:20

although the 16bit stuff doesn't work anymore since win7

19:20

and people noticed that ^^

i really liked the way netbsd implements backwards compatible syscalls btw

(me included)

<eeeee> i think it still worked in 32bit win7, was only broken in 64

yea, maybe

19:20

but it still works in wine \o/

point is i'd rather have old code that is sitting out in daylight then old code rotting in microsofts dank cellar

@Learath2 where i can get Learath2 OS? :)

19:27

well, i know ubuntu has more up to date drivers for my gpu, but i don't like ubuntu

have you s eeeee n: https://grsecurity.net/passing_the_baton.php ?

<eeeee> can you translate that from PR-talk to english?

grsecurity is no longer open source

<eeeee> okay that sucks i guess, but there's still SELinux?

isn't that orthogonal?

<eeeee> dunno, i thought those are alternatives

selinux user space confinement, grsecurity for kernel security

new Gamemode in teeworlds?

20:01

"BW"?

"blockwar"?

oh... it's block

20:02

without fast download by eeeee

20:02

so sad

we need http download

huh

20:03

weird. Don't understand

20:04

why he changed entities, and position of tilesets

20:04

for the same things. like hookthrough

<eeeee> people like to reinvent the wheel

20:05

<eeeee> i was reading the "fng2

20:05

<eeeee> " mod code recently, it has alternative implementation of >16 players

how does it do it?

<eeeee> pretty much the same way as far as i can tell. but the code is different.

20:06

<eeeee> also missing the heuristics our code grew over the years, so probably a less seamless user experience :P

I think, it's not that bad, since he's trying to understand code

20:07

instead of just repeating

20:07

then it's worthless to do it again

<eeeee> would be better if he understood ddnet code and contributed something new to ddnet instead

don't be so selfish!

20:08

:<

how is that selfish?

just joking

<eeeee> fstd's openfng is also perfectly fine and open, no idea why we need fng2

but it would be better to split ddnet into modules, like core

20:08

and ddrace

20:08

;d

20:08

xD

20:09

core with all of these features which should be everywhere

20:09

and security fixes etc

we should call it "teeworlds"

<eeeee> to really modularize things we should move gamecore to lua

or some other language

but it would be the thing

20:10

to split ddrace features

20:10

into module

20:10

let's make teemposer

20:10

teemposre require ddnet/ddrace

20:10

xD

20:12

I would like to see teeworlds in some kind of DDD

20:13

what the, why it's red ?

what word is teemposer based off?

20:14

why is my chat message red?

20:14

this one as well. restarting

20:14

now it's not red anymore

20:14

hm

<Savander> discord down

20:15

<Savander> at least our localization

20:15

<heinrich5991> it works for me again

20:15

<Savander> nvm :D

red = undelivered

ah

teemposer?

20:15

composer

20:15

php package manager

<heinrich5991> ah

packagist.org

20:18

Or better, tpm

20:18

or even dpmm

hi from wayland

mfw he actually switched to wayland

hi from windows 10

feelsbadman

1

i did

20:44

and im back to normal

20:44

it sucks

20:44

it has a back where changing hz doesnt work

20:44

bug*

20:44

and 60hz is a no for me, after so many hours with 144hz

wayland is going to die just like Mir did unless it stops trying to be a usergrab from windows

which distro did you used with and which de? (edited)

also, the screen selection in wayland sucks

20:45

i have screens

20:45

and it picked the secondary for teeworlds

20:45

and changing it to the other made the game minimize

why do you think that wayland is going to die?

It's an attempt to make "this" year the year of linux desktop that's why (edited)

i guess ill keep W$$ for teeworlds

but xorg is still shitty and wayland is atleast an alternative

I have a friend working as IT in a major airport, they use X to deploy flight stats screens to hundreds of screens, login terminals to couple of hundred screens

xorg doesnt seem bad to me

wayland doesn't even recognize networks yet

20:47

xorg is pretty shit internally, a mess of bolted on stuff

compare how long x is being developed to wayland

i just want the propietary drivers to work on xorg 1.19

20:48

and see if it doesnt flicker

the problem in "modern" linux is we say there is a problem, these "modern" devs come along with their shiny designs fixing a completely different problem that noone complained about

20:48

see Mir, see Wayland, see SystemD, see upstart

systemd is bad?

then there is the old people who refuse to get a little perspective, see consolekit, see polkit

20:49

@Ryozuki imho and in thousands of other peoples opinion but heinrich5991 would disagree

20:51

systemd is a blob that replaces all the different parts responsible in getting a linux system up with a small black box (open source sure but who is even going to read the billion lines they have)

20:52

f.e. they last absorbed udev, promised everyone that they'll keep releasing udev as standalone

20:53

guess where udev is now (hint: systemd-udevd)

20:53

</rant>

that name is meh

20:54

@Learath2 u can rant a lot here https://www.devrant.io/

don't think that would be enough

:)

every time i see systemd-sth i really feel a strong urge to put my fist through my screen

poor screen

the screen is far too expensive to put fist thru, so i end up not doing it

my prediction is that wayland is not going to die

feelsamazingman

1

20:55

if someone wants to bet against it, be my guest

if only i had money

thats what lot of ppl say (learath) (edited)

20:57

if somebody would say that my Rust skills are 'rusty', would that be a good thing or bad?

good one (edited)

20:58

`` isn't for quotes!

20:58

>does this work? does it?

20:58

no

what would you use for quotes then

not code blocks

Embedded image

if they gave me a magic wand that could send me back in time only once, i'd go back and make sure ‎Lennart Poettering‎ becomes a poet or sth

"jurassic fork" is the best of the image

21:02

"Anyone remember when one could login into most linux systems by hitting backspace 28 times?" i didn't know this

what are you reading? ^^

can we have a channel where i can rant about systemd all year long?

try #devuan or something

@Ryozuki grub bug, really interesting

@heinrich5991 devrant.io xD

21:03

(i read it when im bored, e.g now)

read the write up on the bug, quite intriguing

backspace doesn't check for buffer overflow (underflow?) and then it's all like "bring your own code"

ok this is the last

21:04

Embedded image

21:04

now i go, cya! :P

going to bed?

yep

good night

gn

too early

gn8

(i have to wake up early, etc)

school started?

i ensure to not sleep on friday and saturday np

21:05

yes sadly

i generally slept at 3am and spent the first lesson sleeping in hs

good job :D

genius

should give it a try, first lessons are boring enough anyways

in subjects you don't like, you can usually still learn something

definately do not apply the same logic to uni, doesn't work, tested

btw

21:32

About teeworlds now

21:32

don't you think, that bind's should be send once?

21:32

i mean, if you holding key

21:32

the bind should be send once, instead of infinite

21:32

? D:

I don't understand, can you elaborate?

21:39

binds aren't usually sent to the server I think

i mean

21:39

like, kill

21:39

say

21:39

etc

21:39

if you hold key wiuth say "hay"

21:39

it will send it all the time, even if server has

21:39

prtoection

21:40

in my opinion, it should send once per button down

mh. to make spamming harder?

yea

21:51

it's not needed in teeworlds i guess, but hmm

21:51

maybe autojump

it's not repeatedly sent

for example

21:52

if i press "z" what is kill

21:52

on ddnet, after 20minutes

21:52

i got big spam

21:52

that i should use kill command

yes, that repeatedly sent

say commands are as well

yep

it is intentional ?

I'm not sure

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